Kickstarter Project: Learn to Packraft

[Michael Fisher]

Hi Ryan,

I am writing to ask about the status of the packraft series you have on Kickstarter.

I am concerned because the Kickstarter campaign was successfully funded in excess of the original goal on February 15, 2013. The timeline for the DVD (which I opted to get with funding of $50) says February 2014. To date, however, the only evidence of progress I have seen are the two episodes. Given that the Kickstarter page says that the Level 1 series on DVD will contain 20 episodes, it appears you have completed 10% of the episodes/modules.

Your last update to the page, announcing the second episode, was on December 21, 2013, just shy of 9 months ago. Early updates had indicated a slew of footage that was being edited from the 2013 season, but so far we've only seen two episodes.

Could you please give an update on the status of this project? As a backer as well as a lifetime BPL member, the lack of communication about this project has been very troubling.

[Ken Thompson]

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[Jon Holthaus]

Timeline is listed on the kickstarter page…

[Michael Fisher]

The timeline (the talk) is what was originally proposed, but it is obviously so far off at this point as to be laughable. Sure, it fits with the DVD timeline for a $50 contribution:

Pledge $50 or more
51 backers
Level 1 Series in 1080p HD on DVD, to be delivered when all Level 1 modules are completed (+ all of the above).
Estimated delivery: Feb 2014

Note, however, that Level 1 was to include 20 modules (per Kickstarter page). We have seen 2 episodes (as they have been named so far) to date (the last being posted as of 12/21/13), which means that 18 still have not been developed. The Level 1 series was supposed to be complete in 12 months (from 2/15/13 funding to Feb 2014, not including DVD production time). It has been 19 months (158% of scheduled time) and progress, as measured by the number of released episodes, stands at 10%.

I recall that one of the backer updates claimed that all the footage had been filmed and that they were working on editing. That was in the fall of 2013. Where's the rest of it?

I should have read up about Ryan's background before I supported his project. And I should have reflected on the changes to BPL as well. When I signed up as a life member, there was a shop with all kinds of unique items and there was all kinds of great content. Today, there's no shop and, as before, lots of great content but not that much from Ryan. All the energy seems to be focused on his next big project.

[Michael L]

Ken,

You better watch out or Adam Klagsbrun will be along to insult you and tell you to be grateful for what you get.

[Ian]

Michael,

Your a doodyhead and should try to be more grateful two over their in the Palouse sense that'z the hoame of the Cougs.

Best regards,

Ian

PS Go Coogs.

[Nick Gatel]

What did you people expect?

The whole concept of crowd funding is flawed. This is what happens. I knew this kind of result would replicate itself over and and over the first time I read about Kickstarter and similar ilk.

Didn't someone once say, "a fool and his money are easily separated" ?

I'll post this again. Someone should make it a "sticky" on the main page of BPL.

Kickstarter (or brother can you spare a dime

When someone does something over and over and expects a different result… I think there is a word for that.

[Ken Thompson]

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[Michael L]

Ken,

You won't ever convince Nick of that. He has hated crowd sourcing forever….if you couldn't tell from his often linked blog post on the subject!

[Michael Fisher]

I sent my original post to Ryan via Kickstarter. For the benefit of all the backers, here is a quick summary and update.

As had been posted in an earlier update, all of the footage was shot in 2013 and they're working on editing. They have been editing all of the episodes at once, hence the lack of progress on an episode-by-episode basis. Ryan said this "allows us to be a bit more strategic in how all of the content is being presented. In addition we have consolidated episodes into a fewer number of longer episodes so they are a bit more complicated to put together that we originally expected."

Ryan — thank you for the update. I'm really looking forward to seeing the fruits of your labor.

[David Ure]

"It is an investing in Ryan Jordan problem. He can't deliver on his word."

This is highly unusual.

[Ken Thompson]

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[Edward Jursek]

A concept like Kickstarter looks great on paper, but in reality you are handing someone money with virtually no oversight or accountability. It is essentially a donation to a project or product and you hope to see something in return someday. It is truly a case of investor beware. I find it impossible to work up any sympathy for anyone disappointed by their Kickstarter "investment."

[Mitchell Ebbott]

Well, it's not quite as bad as you say. It's a prepayment contract. If Ryan Jordan doesn't deliver on his end of that contract, then the Kickstarter backers are entitled to court-ordered remuneration of their funds. Whether it's actually worthwhile to pursue legal action is a different question.

I for one will not be renewing my BPL membership if this doesn't get resolved. I'm not even a backer, but from what I can tell Ryan Jordan has stolen money from members of our community.

[Philip Tschersich]

MOST businesses fail, and lots of them start with plans and investors. Kickstarter is really no different. I think it's an awesome concept and I hope it continues. Just be aware that not everything you help fund is going to pan out. Only put as much in as you are willing to lose.

[Gabe P]

I have a vague memory of a post he did a year or so ago where he said he hurt his back. Maybe he's dealing with an injury and hasn't been able to prioritize the project in the way he'd planned.

[Ken Thompson]

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[Dave T]

"vague memory of a post he did a year or so ago…"

Like most things Ryan and BPL "leadership", it's usually money first (poof… gone!) and then vague memories of promises undelivered.

[Anonymous]

I originally signed up as just a F member, and then part way in, became a M member. During that time, i became aware of the above info, and that was a definite part in my decision to not upgrade back to M membership when it ran out. I don't want to extra support someone who has taken a large sum from others without giving much back.

Vote with your wallet F's and current M's.

[Dave T]

Any update on that $35,000 you defrauded out of people?

Just wondering.

Doesn't that Boy Scout Motto mention something about being trustworthy, helpful, and thrifty?

Or was it sketchy, noncommunicative, and spending-illgotten-cash-without-a-care?

---

Dave

Your postings are becoming a bit too rude and personal. You are causing
quite a few complaints from other members. I would apppreciate it if
you could tone your postings down a bit please.

Also, please update your email address in the database so I don't have to post messages like this in public. This is a definite requirement.

Yours
Roger Caffin (PhD)
Online Community Manager

[Cayenne Redmonk]

Maybe these are being repackaged for the new BPL website roll out. Pack rafting is growing so fast that they might have had to go out and shoot more videos to keep it phresh. Plus they added the bonus hiker video at no charge. That takes time too. I'm hoping they eventually come out on Netflix as the standard in how to float and how to walk categories

[Cayenne Redmonk]

Oh, just looked at the dates. These might already out on dvd already, this thread is a year old.

[Dave T]

" These might already out on dvd already, this thread is a year old."

Teehee.

[Marc Kokosky]

Roger,

Maybe he was being too personal. However, if I also felt if I've been defrauded out of money for a project that isn't coming, or is at the very least WAY beyond the promised due date, and the said producer of the films never responds to the website he supposedly owns and operates and the very people he solicited from, I'd be calling him out too… And have in the past.

Also if there wasn't already a presence from said owner and operator on many of the other promises he's made on this site (still waiting on that BPL app) then the delay and lack of communication in this instance would be acceptable since things happen and life sometimes gets in the way. However it is now a repeating pattern and is very concerning, it's also a reason why I've also not renewed my membership. The lack of benefits, recycled content with little feel that the money is going to anything is depressing.

Lastly, I'm sorry that you feel the need to respond to this post. I can only assume that Ryan is aware of this thread, and also keenly aware of the delays to his project that he advertised, promised and solicited money for. The fact that he isn't the one responding to this thread and offering at least some sort of justifiable explanation and reset of the project with clearly defined (and adhered to) deadlines is just sad.

[Ken Thompson]

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