MLD Duomid

I thru hiked the PCT this summer and was pretty surprised by the tent choices. By far the most common shelters were the Zpacks Hexamid and Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1 or UL2. The latter is a fine choice, while I'm in the seemingly small minority who dislike the Hexamid. It's too complex to pitch and it's protection is too limited when you actually need a shelter. Most Hexamid users on the PCT don't actually set them up very often, and if they do they usually look pretty poor. It's not like casual hiking where you have more time in the evenings to nail the pitch. I think the DuoMid + inner is far superior choice to that or to the Echo (too complex).

SoCal is windy, sandy and so dry you'll rarely have condensation in any shelter. It's quite nice to have full coverage to reduce the effects of the wind. A freestanding tent is nice here, as staking can be a bit of a pain, but the DuoMid is great in the class of non-freestanding shelters since you can get by with only 4 stakes (i'd guy out the bigger sides too). You can easily put deadman anchors in, in the desert sand, so employ this technique if need be. Hexamids are too complex (8+ stakes?) and of limited protection anyways, so most tarp and hexamid users simply cowboy camp all the way across SoCal which usually works well but occasionally sucks (ants, blowing sand etc).

You may find on the PCT that #3 zippers don't hold up (which the inner net tent likely has). Both of mine failed on my TT StratoSpire and many other hikers in a range of shelters had the same thing. Grit + 100 days of use = broken #3 zip.

I'm a big fan of the DuoMid for a hike like the PCT (well almost any hike really). The full protection is nice and it's got the vestibule space that you'll want. I've got a cuben DuoMid now and I used to have an Echo I. IMO, the Echo is just too much hassle to set up when you're through hiking (i.e. getting into camp late with limited evening time).

You might get a bit of condensation in Oregon and you'll probably get it regularly in Washington, but it's largely unavoidable in these environments. The good thing with a DuoMid + inner is that you're mostly protected when it forms under the mid.

"thru hiked the PCT this summer"

Congrats Dan.

Welcome back Dan.

Well done :-)

Dan,
Enjoyed your frank comments. Refreshing.
Poked around the MLD site to find that the inner netting zip is #3 also.
Do you think there's a work-around, or would it be better to go to #5 zips and design for less total zip length.
I've noted that the manila colored #3 zips that Warmlite uses are a little heavier and possibly more durable than the black #3's sold elsewhere (0.12 oz/ft vs 0.10 oz/ft). Stephenson's big concern, though, was not dust and grit, but icing on trips to the far north, such as northern Labrador.

Also hoping someone will comment on the dust-material issue raised by the OP. Wondering with nylon, is there a difference between sil and PU coated as far as dust attraction is concerned.

I think that apart from dirt and dust the problem with zips happen when some undue stress is put on them.
One way to reduce that is to make sure the shelter is set up with the door panels zipped up* and for example with the TT SS2, use the apex guylines so that those take a lot of stress away from the door panels.
* if you can't easily slide the zip up and down (out of heavy wind) either the shelter is badly designed or not set up correctly.

To be clear, the zippers on the "fly" of my TT SS2 worked great the whole time, which are the main zips that one can easily overstress with a bad pitch. They are both #5 zips I believe. The inner uses smaller #3 zips, and all 4 sliders eventually didn't work by the end of the trip. #3 zips are pretty standard for UL tent inners, so nothing against TT here. Some other brands also use #3 for the fly (Big Agnes? Zpacks?) which is a mistake IMO. Some zipper maintenance (clean with toothbrush, lube) would likely help, but on a thru hike you're just so tired and have such limited rest time that its tough to find the motivation. I've also read that squeezing the sliders with pliers would tighten things up so they'd work again. I meant to do that for the last 500 miles but never got around to it.

Franco: I like your SS2 pitch method the best…..especially when it's windy.

Interesting advice Dan (+1 on the congrats) and giving me ideas about my next shelters (my poor PayPal account!) …. but looking at MLD's website they use #3 zippers on their inner tents currently (btw – looking at a mostly cuban-fiber MLD solution for summer+3-season but another Moment with wintry accessories/DW …for winter – can't be bothered adjusting vents too far out of my sleeping bag if there's snow outside)

Was looking at a Cuban-fiber patrol shelter and sil -flooredSuperlight bivy but for a few more oz..

Congrats on the PCT Dan…My departure is the next 2015 early April..
I am in the frame work with resupply stratagy..
I purchaced the Echo 2 last year for training Wonderland Trail August 2013 and PCT San Gabriel Mtns January 2014..
A little too big for soloing but wow does it dry out damp or wet gear while being in a wet enviorment….
I am looking at changing over to the MLD C.F. Duomid with the C.F. Insert for weight loss and for complete coverage (when I used the Echo I was allways trying to guy the tarp low to the ground for coverage I might as well get a Mid)
Your Post and experience with the Duomid really helped communicating much needed information on actual product use for the PCT.. Thank you
Additional note: I will more then likely switch out the MLD to the Echo in the northern section of the PCT where wet weather keeps everything damp….I look forward to the Duomid this will be my first floorless shelter…I will be useing my MLD silnylon Pancho as a ground sheet for better coverage…

NOTE ON ZIPPERS
The Duomid uses three buckles that relieve zipper tension one buckle on the bottom and two buckles on the upper section of the door…this is a great benefit becuase you can partially unzip the door and guy it down providing a beak and more air circulation.. The Echo only used on snap button on the bottom.. I had to return my beak to HMG becuase of zipper problems resulting from inadequate stress relief..
The Duomid offers three different points of closure and buckle support for zipper tension…that is a big thumbs up!

I'm sure MLD would use a #5 zip instead for a nominal charge if you'd prefer. I'd also recommend a silnylon floor over cuben and no groundsheet. A light (0.7oz) cuben floor is likely to be pretty destroyed by the end of a thru hike. You could protect it with a groundsheet, but just opting for silnylon is simpler, cheaper and probably lighter option.

Thank you for the #5 zipper heads up..my MLD silnylon Pancho tarp 30D 7.5 oz 5×7. This should be adequate ground cover keeping .74 C.F.net insert off the ground and provide ground cover keeping gear dust and dirt free…
I was suprised MLD used .74 C.F. for bathtub floor on the insert..

Well, I'm getting a supermid insert. The specs ->

SUPERMID InnerNet
$195 19oz Pro Silnylon Bottom
$345 14oz Cuben Fiber Bottom

I'm overprotective of my floors if I use an inner…actually, even if I have a bivy. I always use polycryo. Everything is just too rocky where I camp (Idaho/Utah). And…I just like the idea of cheap and light option that protects my groundfloor.

So, a piece of polycryo the size for the supermid is 3 oz. Since I would use it with either sil or cuben, I think I would prefer the .74 oz cuben vs the 1.0z cuben like my duplex uses for weight savings. I would still save 5 oz, so its a decent price/oz cost for the upgrade.

Hi All

We use only the tough #5 YKK Water Resistant Zippers on all Mids.

All the inner nets, bivys , etc. use the regular YKK #3 zippers like almost every manufacturer- the zipper is way tougher than the 15d bug net or 10d fabric next to it.

About 3- 4 times a year we get back a shelter for zipper repair when the zipper gets sticky and/or can not zip the teeth together anymore. (Not that many considering the hundreds and hundreds out there.)

In almost every case it is zipper pull that has been abraded on the inside from dirt and grit on the zipper teeth and can not join the teeth anymore and most had been used in sandy beach/ desert areas for many days. Also in most cases the user had never cleaned or treated the zipper with an approved zip care product.

The good news is that the aluminum pulls get abraded on the inside and the teeth are almost always OK. So it a simple zipper pull replacement and we design the Mids for that with an easy to access top zipper terminus.

Tips for long zipper life.
1: Use a good zip clean and lube care product as needed. We recommend Mc Net Zip Care Cleaner & Lubricant.
2: Do not use wax, lib balm, ear wax, WD-40, bike chainlube, snot or other waxy oily non zip specific stuff (we've seen it all) – all that stuff only holds dirt on the teeth and makes it worse than if left dry.
3: Clean and inspect the zipper when needed or once a year or every 50 nights of use- more if in rough dirty areas.
4: Carry a spare zip pull, needle and thread on long or remote trips.

Thanks

"snot or other waxy oily non zip specific stuff"

Dual purpose? ; )

@Ron

You said ->

Silnylon floors are the same 30d as the shelters.

Cuben floor are the same .75oz sq/yd as the shelters.

Thanks

Incredible weather. Totally awesome landscape. Recommend Mongolia.

I love tarps, but when it's stupid windy for days on end and there are not sheltered spots, the duomid served me well.

Moron proof set up too after a long day. No problems with the zippers at all.

I was beginning to think all anyone ever needs in most of the world is a cuben tarp, but I can also see a role for the duomid- with those two you cover just about any situation outside of a swamp.

Just to comment on zpack hexmid – the current model is seriously flawed. I have met people that say they use it successfully, but I (secretly) believe that the walls are just to help people feel psychologically protected from the night more than anything. Maybe there is some room for it as a bug shelter? It's no duomid.

Which model are you referring to? The solplex/duplex/triplex or the hexamid twin type tents?

Ulaanbaatar Mongolia –

– strange place for a Duomid …

The stepps of Mongolia don't look a much different than South Park in Colorado, except that they are 6000' versus 10,000'. I doubt the weather is any worse than Titcomb Basin in Wyoming or the San Juans in Colorado.

"Just to comment on zpack hexmid – the current model is seriously flawed."

A bold statement. Got any specifics? I've done pretty well in mine, a SoloPlus with beak …

@Sean I'm also waiting for specifics on the "serious flaws" of the Z Packs Hexamids, as I think the Z Packs Hexamid Duplex is a pretty well designed, lightweight, 3 season tent. (Note the 3 season). It has several features that the MLD Duomid lacks. I'm 6'3" so I have to sleep diagonally in the Duomid because the head and foot of the inner net slope so much; making it a solo shelter. And then there's that pesky pole in the middle. Even with no wind, if it's raining I can't leave a door open on the Duomid making condensation an issue. Plenty of ventilation on the Duplex. The MLD inner net has minimal bathtub compared to 8" on the Duplex. Duplex uses same number of stakes and is lighter. CF Duomid with inner net is $100 more expensive. Set up the Duplex a couple of times and it's pretty straight forward. So what is it that makes the Duplex a "bug shelter"? By the way, I like the Duomid! Definitely better in snow. M

I tried out the speedmid in Hawaii and missed my 4oz hexamid so much. The speedmid is 22oz compared to the Duomid 20oz. But after seam sealing, sack, guylines, it was more like 30oz. Weight was the main drawback, I thought I would like the "darkness" of it too, which helped, but sitting in any tent when the sun is up is going to be hot, humid, and uncomfortable anyway. So yeah, for about the same price you can go full cuben with something from Zpacks! It is a great value per- ounce saved. We are talking 4oz for $210 (soloplus hex) vs ~25oz unless you opt for the $425 cuben Duomid. If you have access to do research on both saving TONS/ POUNDS weight and money is the smart choice.

Sounds to me like Sean has either never used a Hexamid, or just didn't understand how to.

I am another satisfied Hexamid Solo Plus tarp & Hexanet user, and I am quite sure that you will find that there are many others.

I will agree that it is no Duomid. If it were, they would be the same…

Regarding the pole in the middle issue with the Duomid. Here's my solution, a piece of PVC heated over our gas range and gently bent to a ~30* angle. When cooled it will flex without breaking. The pictured bracket was my first attempt and was a bit short but you get the idea. The pole extender Ron shipped with the Duomid weighed 0.7 oz. The bracket I'm using, which is a 14" piece of 1/2" thin wall PVC, weighs 1.5 oz.

Thomas, super nice mod!!

Have you been through any heavy weather (wind, snow) with it?

I have been thinking about — and then hesitating — to get a Duomid because of the pole issue. Thanks to your very elegant and simple solution, I might just have to order one!

And Sean, I'm a very happy Hexamid Duplex user and am waiting to learn what serious flaws I've failed to notice.

Considering the Duomid because I need a 4th-season shelter. Otherwise the Duplex is perfect for my needs, but I could see how it might not be best for deserts with blowing sand, and/or perhaps some other environments. Pitching difficulty?? Duh, I don't get that one at all — mine is up in 2 minutes flat, and that includes some poking around with the stakes to find cracks in the sub-turf rocks.

I have only had the Duomid for a little over a week and taken it out once for an overnighter so I haven't had to weather a storm yet but the 2 pole setup is very stable. IMO, certainly more stable than the single pole in the middle at an offset.

I sure do wish I had discovered this shelter before I hiked the PCT….