Wet, humid weekend. Stick to UL gear or go more traditional?

90% of your results this weekend will depend on good site selection. Finding an area with good airflow will solve a lot of your condensation issues, as will pitching in such a way that air flows through the openings of your tent. A nice, taut pitch that keeps openings near the ground will do wonders.

Don't go out and buy more stuff. You can make this work! Sounds like you already know the drill for fighting condensation.

You should mention how long your trip is!

I'd just keep everything the same and deal with it. Given the right conditions, it can rain condensation inside a Copper Spur too–personal experience.

Camp in breezier sites and you'll be reasonably comfortable. Breezy sites shouldn't be difficult to find along the shore of the lake. :)

Thanks, Max

This is 37 miles along the Superior coastal trail, which reportedly can be rugged and difficult to hike in places due to the rocks, etc. I think others have posted trip reports in that portion of the forums.

Others in my group pushed for low miles on some of the initial days. They are more traditional backpackers.

This is in a national park at designated camp sites. I do not think there are site selection options much.

The Big Agnes tent is something I can borrow, but u are right that the synthetic gear would cost me.

"Bring a Nalgene each and fill with boiling water each night to drive out the moisture as much as possible."

I've never heard that. Can it possibly work? Really doubt it.

Stick with what you have that works.

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If you are worried about the moisture accumulating and making you cold, then just compensate with more down – either a warmer down bag or an extra down jacket to sleep in.

If you really want to go synthetic, the EMS Solstice 20 is an amazing synthetic bag. Less than $100 for a 3-season, 3lb bag. I have one and the quality is great for a budget item.

With overnight shipping you might get it in time, but maybe not… They don't have EMS out there, just remembered.

The biggest issue I have experienced when camping in "dank" weather, is paying just as much attention to drying off as I do to not getting wet. As others have mentioned, good site selection, wiping off the tent, and maintaining high ventilation are paramount. I'd stick w/ the Heximid, and possibly add an extra tarp (perhaps a poncho tarp or over sized pack cover) for extra coverage. That way I could use that piece to keep the Mid as open and dry as possible. But with anticipated RH on that weather report, I suspect the biggest issue will be the moisture control, not bulk water.

Personally, I always prefer down, especially in the weather you are expecting to have. With that kind of humidity, keeping warm wont be an issue, just not feeling too clammy. Down is much more vapor permeable than synthetic insulation, which in my book translates to feeling more comfortable. I also always use full length sleeping pajamas, to wick away any body moisture as I sleep. Bring a 2nd towel, if you are exceptionally concerned about water. That way, one towel is used for bulk water removal, and the 2nd one is for inside the Mid.

In my recollection, the hot water in the canteen trick is mostly effective in cold,dry weather, where there is little room in the air to hold moisture. The extra heat & humidity from the canteen works in conjunction with our own body heat & moisture to raise the dew point, and keep it out of the sleeping bag. (There's pretty much nothing worse than that dew point ending up somewhere right inside of a sleeping bag's insulation.)
However, when you are in a situation where the air temp is already in a preferred "comfort zone" but the RH is too high, this method will simply make the air both warmer and more humid, reducing your overall comfort.

(Again, this is how I remember this stuff.)

I have the Twin as well. Most of the time, condensation isn't a problem with it but when it's bad, it's bad. In humid conditions on the Wonderland similar to what you're describing, it was dripping pretty bad on my daughter and me. My towel was working overtime trying to keep up with it. When the rain drops hit, there was a transfer of energy through the fabric to the condensation so we got the misting effect.

With all that being said, I'd bring the Twin and work through it.

A couple thoughts:

1) tie knots at the corners of your polycryo ground sheet and tie them in to your Twin. This will lift the sheet of the ground, hopefully enough, so any water that runs your way will go under and not over your sheet.

2) I like backpacking in national parks but the designated campsites are a pain in these conditions. I've found that most of the sites are tamped down and feel like sleeping on concrete. One of the unfortunate results of this is that water doesn't drain worth a damn and your campsite may become a swimming pool overnight. Please take great care when choosing where you will pitch your shelter within your site. One benefit of setting up camp in the rain is often times, the problem areas are already starting to puddle up.

3) I've only owned one down sleeping bag but regardless of forecast, I bring it with me for any three season trip. Many people (not here at BPL) argue that you should only use synthetic insulation in the PNW due to moisture; I'm officially down with down and will never buy another synthetic sleeping bag out of fear of moisture. There's more to it than that and I'd certainly take extra care not to submerge it.

4) With two people, the Twin isn't an ideal shelter to keep your gear out of the rain. Bring a small piece of polycryo to cover your pack at night.

"The hot water in the Kleen Kanteen works. I have been doing it for years. When I get to a campsite in the winter, I take out my sleeping bag and lay it out (generally under a tarp) and heat up water for dinner. The first batch of water goes in a steel bottle and into the sleeping bag. By the time I am ready to crawl into it an hour or two later the moisture on the outside shell is gone and the loft is back to where it should be. For this reason alone I haven't used a VBL in over a decade."

And this right here is why I joined BPL. Thanks for teaching me something new.

Sounds like a tent with a bathtub floor would be good. Ventilation is a very good thing. Towels and mopping is about all you can do. Yes to site selection for breeze and puddles

Hammocks would be perfect.

I would use a 32f rated synthetic bag and use it quilt style if I got too hot and sweaty. Lafuma comes to mind for a cheap substitute, as much for the breathable fabric as anything. With your down stuff, you could try to take advantage of any sun breaks for drying.

I'm surprised at the lows for the altitude and season.

Yeah, the hot water in a Nalgene works. I thought everyone did this?

Am I right that this trip is about 3 days in length? If so, keep your gear the same. Any loft loss via moisture will likely not be enough to collapse your sleep or clothing system if you focus on not getting soaked. Take a bandana and wipe the inside of your tarp walls if they collect condensation.

For a longer trip, I would probably add some synthetic clothing but keep the down bag.

If you are going as a group splitting the weight of a 9×5 sil tarp for cooking under is 10oz or so well spent.

If the tent option is free, and you fit in the BA UL2 I would probably consider taking it. But I am a tent guy to begin with rather than a tarp guy.

I would not switch out any down gear just make sure you have a garbage bag/ dry bag to keep the down gear dry.

We're doing 6 days. The group wanted to take their time and enjoy the trip.

You know, if you bring along additional/ traditional gear to deal with the elements, your only downfall is carrying what, an extra 2-3lbs? That is nothing. I wouldn't even notice the difference. However, I would definately notice being more dry and comfortable for the couple days I was exposed to that environmnet.

Yeah, I'll have some synthetic clothing as well all the others.

Thanks, everyone.

It sounds like the majority feels we should keep our down bags but seriously consider the double-walled tent with extra room over the Hexamid Twin.

yes, we'll have either my 8×10 flat sil tarp or my borahgami silnylon tarp to eat under, etc.

> we should keep our down bags but seriously consider the double-walled tent with extra
> room over the Hexamid Twin.
Yup, definitely.
Thing is, with a GENUINE double wall tent (ie a fabric inner, not a mesh inner), the condensation will still happen but it will be away from you and your gear. That way, for 6 days, you remain far more comfortable. And if you aren't enjoying yourself, why are you there?

Cheers

If tou are bring a synth ir fleece jacket …

A trick is to put it over the down bag in areas that are prone to condensation such as the footbox

It helps the internal moisture migrate to the synth which dries faster … And also helps prevent condensation from the tent/tarp walls from brushing agaist the bag

Also read this …

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/wet_down_how_to_cope

;)

"Thing is, with a GENUINE double wall tent (ie a fabric inner, not a mesh inner), the condensation will still happen but it will be away from you and your gear. "

Not many of these such creations available in the US. Should be more, of course.

"If tou are bring a synth ir fleece jacket …"

Pardon?

"If tou are bring a synth ir fleece jacket …"

Allow me.

If you are bringing a synthetic or fleece jacket…

If you have the option a full length inflatable mattress can help keep your bag off the ground if the tent becomes flooded. Kind of a sad situation but it can help. Just imagine you're on a raft!