Sierra Designs Backcountry Bed 800

You could go with the SD Backcountry Quilt instead of the Bed. I ordered both with the intention of sending one back after trying them both out and liked them so much I ended up keeping them both. The Quilt is 1 lb 8 oz and rated to 38 degrees, which is about right from my experience. I am a quilt guy and love the innovative design.

I have never tried a quilt before, but Just the idea of that bed I love. I really like having something behind myself with the opening the front.

If you really like the design of the BC Bed, then keep it. I sacrificed a lot of gear I really liked to get my weight low and hit a base weight of 9.5 lbs. But I missed some things and slowly added some gear back that brought me pleasure, like a better pad, the Nano 7 hammock to take breaks in, and so on. My base weight is now about 12.5 lbs (sometimes more) but I am a much happier hiker. So the BC bed is maybe a lb heavier. If you like it, then it's not a big deal. I can tell you from my own personal experience, I'm glad I kept it. It is soooo very comfortable to sleep in.

I know a place that might make something for you:)

-Tim

I really wonder why we don't have more sleeping solutions rather than independent pieces. It would make the most sense to me to design a system based approach for a customer.

Here is your idea Tim… you have my permission to run with it.

Pick a pad (which you sell as a dealer)

Pick a quilt

Pick Options – Puffy layers, down footies, pillow, bivy, inner/outer bag for seasons

Design the quilt around the pad/pillow. Something truly custom that fits right.

>>I know a place that might make something for you:)
>>
>>-Tim

EE was my first (and only) thought when I read the OP…but I didn't want to volunteer you. :)

So what place might be able to do something?

Talk to Ben at Goose Feet Gear.

I guess Tim's hint was too subtle — talk to him at Enlightened Equipment.

You asked in another thread about quilts, I'm not sure if you have a good handle on how they work. EE's strap system is fantastic, explained here: http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/blog/quilts-102-pad-straps/

Keeps the pad and quilt together as one "unit", adjustable to give you as much room as you need inside or to cinch down for colder temps. I am a toss-and-turn sleeper and was never comfortable in a mummy bag, quilts are a game-changer for me.

ah got it im new on here so I had no idea Tim what Enlightened Equipment

I definitely have a handle on how the quilts work

Michael:

Glavin here at SD.

Note that in 2015 we are adding an ELITE build of our Backcountry Bed, which uses a 10D nylon ripstop shell and 15d Nylon taffeta liner, along with 850 fill power DriDown. This build reduces the weight of the 2 season (EN Limit 29F/-2C) Long by 6 ounces (1,13 vs 2,3), Unfortunately, we are not yet offering it in a 3S version.

Note also that the pad sleeve on the backcountry bed does much more than simply hold the pad. It creates and stabilizes s the "hook" which is the key patented feature that allows tucking without the sides flopping open. If you build something custom, be aware that it won't work by simply strapping it on to a pad. Best initial idea to reduce weight would be to create a completely circular hole in the sleeve (pure catenary) to allow reduction of material while still evenly transferring outward forces to the perimeter of the hook. This would then need to be finished in some way, which is not easy on a perfect circle, so I would weigh the fabric reduction (I guess maybe 15 grams) vs the build cost. Check one out in a store and try it with and without the pad and you will see what I mean.

Note also that overlapping panels are lighter than zippers. WAY lighter. You won't be able to easily create a foot vent with a zipper or toggles that is lighter than the overlapping panels. And it will almost certainly be more fussy to use. Zippers, like frame sheets in packs, are way heavier than people realize. Down and fabric are light (but more expensive). So before building, weigh the components and check the design to make sure you are really reducing weight.

Honestly, the only way I currently see to reduce weight in the BCB significantly is to use lighter fabric, loftier down, or to make it smaller. By eliminating the relatively heavy zippers, toggles, cords, velcro etc, the "hidden-heavies" have already been eliminated.

Good luck with your project! If I can help in any way let me know…..

One thing that I couldn't quite tell is if there is down underneath you like a traditional bag, or is it more like a top bag (like big agnes, WM pod 30, MLD devotion) where there is only nylon underneath your chest?

That would be one way of reducing weight….to remove down from underneath you…

Also, with the sleeping pad sleeve, does it adjust with different sized pads? How does it handle a 25" wide, vs a 20" regular, vs a flat ridgerest?

Michael,

When exactly will the Elite version of the Backcountry Bed be available? Also, will the sleeve on it take a 25" mattress or just a 20"?

My very limited experience with the Backcountry Bed while trying it out at REI one day was that it would not fit a pad wider than 20" (with a 2-2.5" thickness). I tried several, it was a no-go.

For me, this was a deal breaker.

Also, the "hood" lip was useless when I put my size large Exped Air Pillow inside. It would no longer cover my head, so what's the point?

Another deal breaker.

Lastly, I felt that the opening should have extended further down. As it is, it only made it down to about my waist. Because of that, the bag still felt a little too claustrophobic, and not "bed-like" as Sierra Designs claims.

Yet another deal breaker.

It's a real shame, because I truly think Sierra Designs is on to something, I just don't think they've nailed it yet.

If you're hearing this Mike Glavin, I'm hoping you do come out with a sleeping solution that addresses all these things. I love what you're doing at SD these days.

re the width — there is a wide version, per the SD website — But dammit, not for the women's models!!! (yet?)

Yeah, my first reaction was, "wait, SD made the conventional weight tent I carried 14 years ago." But they do seem to doing some in-earnest lightweight innovation now. I'd put the BCB on my short list of Things-I-Would-Buy-at-REI (e.g. pads, poles).

re the EE straps — yes, that system works really well.

I happy with a quilt for spring/summer/fall. I would try a BCB for winter (If and when…)

re the down fill level: some people tout the virture of lower weight down in terms of being less collapsible. Something to think about.

John:

There is a smallish area right under the chest that has no down. Since we wanted a LONG movable footbox and plenty of coverage to ensure no cold spots if your pad shifts around, it is not that big. I don't have one right in front of me, but I am gussing it is 15" wide and 20" long.

The regular and women's bags fit 20" wide mattresses, and the long bag fits 25" mattresses. But think of them as less sizes like a garment, and more like sizes like a bed. Anyone could use any size that works for them, so you don't have to be over 6' to use the Long, since it is also much wider…..

Derek:

I am hearing you. I agree that we have not yet achieved perfection. Note the following:

The bags are designed around different size pads. The Long Bag will fit a 25" mattress. Since they are built on the mattress, the sizes actually have more to do with width than length, so if you are a 25" mattress guy like me, you would choose the LONG even if you are not over 6". We make an adjustable sleeve that fits both which we use on the double bags which hit the market this month.

The pillow thing is indeed an issue. If we made it so it fit pillows and your head inside it is too floppy in the cases that you don't want your head in the "hook" (95% of the time). But I agree it is tight with a thick pillow on the inside, especially for back sleepers. I am a pillow guy too, but also a stomach sleeper mostly, so it is not an issue. But for back/side sleepers, it can be.

We played endlessly (still playing with it, actually) on where to put the bottom of the "hook". In the end, we purposely kept it right at waist level so that you can sit up without pulling on the bed/pad, but so that the "hook" closure is as small and easy to tuck as possible.

Most people have the impression that a zipperless bag will be cold, so we went for a more approachable "snugger" fit. In order for the hook to work properly, you can't extend the hole much lower than the pad sleeve or it will begin to open and you will lose the "hook". So it is a balance. But it could go one baffle lower, or even lower if we extended the pad sleeve.

The biggest thing that I have learned with the Backcountry Bed, which has surprised me and is totally contrary to perception, is that this is an EXCELLENT COLD weather bag. It looks more like a warm weather bag to those used to mummies, but the opposite is actually the case. It is way better in colder weather than warmer weather in my opinion.

Jon:

The ELITE Backcountry Bed will be available by February 1. The LONG size fits 25" mattresses, and the regular and women's fit 20" wide mattresses.

Michael, just a shout out to the BC bed and quilt. I bought both the BC bed and quilt to try both out, with the intention of returning the one I liked least. I liked them both so much I kept both and sold my EE quilt. I later bought a WM bag for my son's BD and he was disappointed it wasn't the BC Bed, so we sold the WM and got him the Bed as well. I use a Exped Synmat UL 7 mat and it works perfectly. The only tweak I would like to see is the zipperless foot vent on the quilt as well–love that feature! I've taken the bags down to approximately 30 degrees and a heavy frost and was very toasty. Close to perfect designs in my opinion!

Steve:

You made my day. I am right there with you. So happy that you are psyched!

–Glavin

Michael,
Thanks for the feedback. Again, I love the direction you and your team are taking SD, I'm sure there are many great things to come.

Speaking of which… have you ever considered designing a sleeping system that is truly modular for two people (can sleep together or separately just as easily)? It seems like people currently do one of two things:

1. Buy a specialty double quilt. This is the lightest option but is not super versatile and makes packing somewhat weird since only one person has a down quilt to anchor their load.

2. Zip together two sleeping bags. This can be an uncomfortable solution since nothing is done to reduce drafts between the two individuals and venting is difficult due to the zipped up configuration of this arrangement.

Also, keeping sleeping pads together under the two people is also a problem that nobody has really effectively solved yet (the pads always seems to separate when any weight is put between them.

If you could designs a sleeping system to fill this niche (and if it was light enough), I think it would be extremely compelling.

Just my two cents…

Hi Derek:

It won't be out for a few weeks, but we solved this by making double's, in our case double beds. I have always really disliked the "zip together" approach for mummies since it magnifies many of their drawbacks, but have not been able to come up with a good way to meet what you are suggesting. Zipping rectangular bags together makes a much better bed, but so few people use rectangular bags for backpacking due to the weight.

If you have a good idea as to how to do it, I would love to hear it. For now, the best solution we have been able to come up with is a single for one and a double for two…..

Also, our doubles do a good job of keeping the pads together at the top, but alas field testing proved the split to occur at the bottom, forcing us to add a strap which I hat with all my might…….

Michael,
It sounds like you have done quite a bit of prototyping concerning how to hold two pads together…

With that in mind, can you tell me if a simple approach of making a precise, custom-sized ripstop sleeve with a vertical baffle separating the two pads works well for keeping the pads together?

I am thinking about making just such a sleeve (for my 23" wide pads) out of 1.1oz nylon, but if you can share any wisdom to save me any trial and error on my own, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Derek:

If you already have the pads, it is relatively simple, because you can custom fit the sleeves to the pads. Adding a "baffle" between the pads will allow them to get a little closer to each other. Otherwise, the best advice is to cover the entire pad, because they will tend to drift apart as soon as not attached, as you know.

Honestly, if your goal is to simply attach two pads together, and you have no need for a "sheet", two straps (we used to make them at Thermarest, they still probably do) will keep the pads together. Usually two straps, well placed, will do the job…..