Roll-Up Soft Bottle + Steripen recommendations

[Wolf’s Rain]

Anyone using this combo that can recommend a bottle that fits well with using a steripen? I will most likely be going with a steripen adventurer as I'm a bit wary of relying on rechargeable in something like the ultra. If anyone has experience with the ultra though I'd be interested in hearing that too.

It will be for solo trips with frequent water sources so doesn't have to be anything more than a liter or so.

[Andrew F]

The only thing I know of is the nalgene canteen which is pretty big and heavy. I use a 0.5L HDPE nalgene plus a 1L platy. Still looking for a better system.

I've had no problems with the rechargeable battery in the Freedom model.

[D M]

I use one of these

http://www.amazon.com/Ziploc-Twist-Medium-Round-Containers/dp/B007J46WRU/ref=pd_bxgy_hpc_img_y

to gather water and purify in (the larger ones carry a liter,) with a Steripen adventure model, and then fill my platypus from that.

And the ziplock container is also what I rehydrate my meals with so it's dual purpose.

[Billy Ray]

I use a wide mouth 1 Liter HDPE Nalgene and a 1L Platy. The Opti-Adventurer will not fit in a normal Platy opening. I treat water in the Nalgene and if I need 2 liters, then I pour it into the Platy and treat in the Nalgene a 2nd time.

Billy

[Mike M]

I borrowed this from someone here, but take a 2 liter Platy and cut the top portion off so the lower is ~ 1.5 liters- it stands on it's own and is very east to treat. My Steripen fits in it and then I roll it up.

[Billy Ray]

"I borrowed this from someone here, but take a 2 liter Platy and cut the top portion off so the lower is ~ 1.5 liters- it stands on it's own and is very east to treat. My Steripen fits in it and then I roll it up."

Mike… how do you get a 90 second dose of the UV to the water droplets above the water line????

Whatever bottle I use, I make sure it is full to the brim so that I am getting the UV dose to ALL the water…

Billy

[Mike M]

Billy- I don't think there is a way to get all the water, no matter what container there will be some untreated droplets on the threads or elsewhere; it's going to be a very (very) minute fraction of the water that is treated

[Billy Ray]

Mike… agreed… but there are better and worse methods.
I fill my Nalgene bottle to the brim. then insert the Steripen. That takes care of all the water droplets inside the container. After the 90 minute UV dose is delivered, I wipe off the external threads with my bandana, then screw on the cap 1/2 turn and turn the bottle on its side and rotate it 360 allowing the treated water to wash off the threads. (this same thread cleaning method from when I used to use the iodine treatment)

Noting is perfect, but that's the best I could come up with.
The pic of your cut off platty looks like a lot of water droplets inside the container and above the water line are NOT getting treated. When you pour out of that platty the untreated water droplets will join with the treated water. Whether that would be enough contamination to make you sick or not, I'm not sure. Might depend on the concentration of 'bugs' in those droplets.

In any case, I just try to do the best I can with these things.

Billy

[EndoftheTrail]

In lieu of lobbing off your 1 or 2L platy at the top…

I don't use the Steripen on my hikes, but here's what I do with my Platy — and it might work for you too. Lobbing off the bottom makes for a wider mouthed water scoop — and screwing on top a "push pull" cap with a piece of metallic coffee filter as strainer (see photo) allows you to easily strain out sediments when emptying the treated water into your clean water bottle(s).

Separately, you can always stir the water vigorously to "hit and bring in" any droplets clinging to the top edge. And if you spill a bit to the ground, no big deal.

[Wolf’s Rain]

Thanks everyone for the input. I've been brainstorming the past day or so and think I might of come up with some ideas. I'll post if I work something out.

Anyone have some experience with the steripen Ultra? I'm considering going with that now over the adventurer. The stats listed on the official website put the Ultra and Adventurer at the same amount of uses per charge / battery. That makes me want to save on batteries and just go rechargeable even with the small weight penalty. Most of my trips are solo and < 1 week and the vast majority will be weekenders. A rechargeable would probably cover that no problem.

Anyone have an Ultra?

[Jerry Adams]

1 "drop" is maybe 1/20th of a mL

so there are 20,000 drops per liter

if you had 1 drop of untreated water in 1 liter, then 99.998% of the water would be treated.

Steripen advertises it destroys 99.9% of protozoa, 99.99% of viruses, and 99.9999% of bacteria

So a drop or two probably isn't important

[EndoftheTrail]

@Wolf:

The two models use exactly the same technology, and both are highly effective!

I've used the Adventurer extensively in my travels around the world — using it almost daily for months at a time (my longest trip was seven months — most others were two months each). One set of CR123 batteries will last about two months. My Adventurer is now 7 years old and still going strong. I have filtered water from filthy, filthy bus station bathrooms. And I never worry about a few droplets on the rim which might be untreated. 100% untreated water might make you very sick, but treating 99.99% while leaving the .01% untreated (droplets on the rim) might just be the very best way to increase the repertoire of your antibodies, without you feeling anything at all – Ebola aside!

On my long trips, I start with a fresh pair anyway, so I don't much care about rechargeables. But for infrequent and/or short-term use, I think I would go with rechargeables — to take away the guess work of how much juice might be left before a trip. Heck, just recharge and you know you have a 'full tank'.

Long and short of it: I think you will be happy with either. The difference — rechargeable or not — is just a matter of preference. The odd lemon aside (every company makes them on occasion) — both are reliable and effective.

[Billy Ray]

Looks like good figures Jerry… but we're probably not talking about a single drop… could be a hundred drops on the inside of that platty in the pic from Mike…

Billy

[Ken Thompson]

wants you to swirl the container, to ensure computer treatment.

[Billy Ray]

Ben:
" One set of CR123 batteries will last about two months."

That is WAY different than my experience. One set of CR123s last for an 8 or 9 day backpack for me… treating 4 or 5 liters of water each day.

As for the rechargeable model… also consider that rechargeable batteries have diminished capacity over time. What I mean is, in a few years it may only treat half what it will when new.

BTW… CR123 batteries can be bought on the internet at about 1/4 of the cost in your local store.

Billy

[David Drake]

+ 1 Jerry Adams.

Knowing your source and having a good idea what the likely contaminates (if any) will be, goes a long way toward assessment of actual risk, rather than worrying a stray drop will do you in. No doubt, there are some places where an abundance of caution is justified. There are also places where not treating at all is perfectly reasonable.

It's a little over a week since I got back from an 8 day trip on the Wonderland Trail. I drank some raw water every day, and treated almost nothing the last 2-3 days. So far, so good. (Incubation period of giardia is often cited as 7-10 days.)

Of course, most of this was water taken at higher altitude, often near a visible spring, in a National Park where stock and other domestic animals have been banned for decades. Rangers there still recommend you treat everything. I wonder how many of them do?

When I do treat water, I've never bothered to wipe 'dirty' water off threads or the outside of bottles. Never worried much about getting a bit of water in my mouth or eyes swimming in rivers and lakes. Again, so far so good.

Perhaps I've just had a good run of luck, playing the odds. If I got sick from something in the water, I'd prob. be a lot more careful.

[jscott]

When I used to use iodine I also would wet the screw cap and threads,as per instructions. I always thought that this was to get iodine into any water droplets that might be in these areas, so that they would be treated. But wetting the threads with Steripen treated water would just seem to wash any untreated water into your treated water. Of course, wiping the threads with a bandanna will probably help. Except for the germs in your bandanna!

My steripen doesn't sterilize water in the threads of my wide mouth soft bottle. I'm with those who think that this is o.k. in good water areas. so far, over three years, it's working.

[Billy Ray]

Jeffrey:
"But wetting the threads with Steripen treated water would just seem to wash any untreated water into your treated water"

Not. The flow is from the treated water inside, across the threads, to the outside and onto the ground… thus, washing the threads. No way for the critters on the threads to contaminate the treated water inside the bottle… unless, of course, they can swim up stream.

"I'm with those who think that this is o.k. in good water areas."

Problem is… how do you know the 'good water areas' from the bad???
Can you tell by looking? Have you taken samples to a lab???
Bottom line is you don't know; you're only guessing.
Best to treat all water… it only takes 2 minutes (even wiping and rinsing the threads). Seems like a small thing to keep from getting sick.

I had giardia many years ago and it is no fun. Further, they can't always 'cure' it. Sometimes you live with it for the rest of your life… :(

Billy

[Dave Ayers]

It's not a roll-up, but FWIW I use mayo bottles. The big opening works well with a Steripen. The 30 oz. size weighs ~2.0 oz., slightly more than the 1.8 oz gatorade bottles.

[Jerry Adams]

Steripen says to wipe untreated water off threads with bandana

Yeah, it seems like bandana might have parasites on it

I don't think it matters much either way, not enough parasites on bandana or drops of untreated water drops to make you sick

I use Sawyer Squeeze which doesn't have this "problem"

[Jerry Adams]

I used cut off 2 liter soda bottle. Made marks at the 1 liter level.

weighs 0.75 oz

Only problem is, it doesn't roll up to use minimum space in pack, but I have a place on top where it doesn't matter

[Andrew F]

I wish I could find some of the old 20oz Gatorade bottles that a steripen would fit in. That'd be perfect. I've seen them, so I know they exist, but I've never found any in a store.

[Billy Ray]

"I don't think it matters much either way, not enough parasites on bandana or drops of untreated water drops to make you sick"

How do you know that Jerry?

I guess one would have to know what the maximum number of parasites could be in a drop of water and and compare that to the minimum number needed to make you sick. Do you have that information Jerry? If so, please share.

As for the Sawyer and other filters, they have their own vulnerablities.

Billy

[Jerry Adams]

It's just what I think : )

Buck Nelson has put lots of good info, for example http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=68224

or google "buck giardia site:backpackinglight.com"

Roger did a couple good articles

There's a lot of conflicting data on how many Giardia particles are needed and how many there are in typical water

I just did a quick "back of envelope calculation" on drops

If you use a roll-up soft bottle or cut off hard bottle there will be very little water above that's not treated. Outside threads will attract a few more drops and will also tend to accumulate other gunk whether you use bandana or not.

Yeah, Sawyer has problems, no perfect solution.

Your solution is good especially since that's what Sawyer recommends.

Seems like Sawyer and Steripen both have lots of happy users. People should try either or both. And look at various threads to see what problems other people have had and how to resolve them (or not).

[Billy Ray]

Well Jerry, and others…
one great thing about these discussions is that it often stimulates me to do a little more research. I have not read much about Giardia and Cryptosporidium for quite some time. But just read this article:

http://www.ultrunr.com/giardia.html

I'm not sure this is the last word on the safety of backcountry water, but it sure makes you think.

After reading that maybe I'll just leave all water treatment at home and save the weight and time :)

Billy

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