myog mountaineering cuben tunnel tent?

[Pierre Descoteaux]

Sam:
Well, an image is worth a 1000 words… I'm speechless! And I thought the only thing I had left to do was to click the buy button on the Fibraplex website. I'm now thinking I should simply try both; your poles and the Fibraplex. Maybe half and half. If something isn't up to par, I can use some of my regular aluminum poles.

Yes, these poles will make for bendier avy probes than normal it all about compromises.
I sent you an email.

Roger: Thank you for the clarification on the stuff sack.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Sam

> The ferrules run right through the elbow without a break.
Correct.
You see, to bend the ferrule tubing Easton has to detemper it a bit, othewise it would simply crack. But that means it is weaker, and any force will bend the elbow rather then flex the pole. So, to keep the strength up, they added another tube over the top of the ferrule tube. It too was detempered, but the combination is now strong enough. An advantage is that the outer tube acts as a stopper when inserting the elbow into a pole. That is conceptually the same as what I use – machined SS tube with very heavy hard heatshrink over the bend itself as the stopper.

> If you could get the Easton poles without the ferrule tubes inside,
They sell them. Have to: you don't want a ferrule in the last pole section!

> I imagine it is much quieter in Australia at 3 AM than here next to NH's largest …
Chuckle – it was in the snow in the mountains at 2000 m! Very quiet.

I use stock silnylon for the sleeves, same as the rest of the tent. No problems here.

> the pole tips of the type designed to go into grommets getting caught in the sleeves
> and sometimes possibly causing tears.
Odd. That's how all my poles are retained: nylon tips in grommets in very light webbing. No fancy devices which jusdt add weight (imho). But the ends are smooth, and I feed them into the sleeves with some care.

> You make an excellent argument by implication for using the slightly lighter,
> stronger and more flexible Gold Tip shafts, rather than the stiffer Victories, and
> using all guyouts all the time. In a real blow, which can arrive unannounced, and
> where the need for a tent becomes critical, that is probably the better option, so
> long as the stakes hold.
In short, I don't know.
What's available on the Aus market is always more limited, and I started almost pre-web-sales, so I used what I could get. It was stiff. It worked fine, for summer and winter.
Are my poles stiffer than needed? Dunno. I did test some wrapped fabric stuff which was much weaker, and that was not satisfactory (and a lot dearer). But the difference was significant.
I think … experiment!

I will add that I have never had a Ti wire stake move, even in a storm. Yes, I sink them right in (if I can). They are just so much easier to use than those Y-shaped aluminium things. Yes, I have plenty of the Y-things; I just don't use them any more.

Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

Pierre,
Sent you a long email with additional options.

Roger,

> If you could get the Easton poles without the ferrule tubes inside,
My mistake. Meant to say Easton ELBOWS without the ferrule tubes inside.

> I use stock silnylon for the sleeves
Understood. But were I using 15-20 denier nylon for the canopy, think I'd go to 30D for the sleeves.

> In short, I don't know.
Me neither. I'm torn. But poles are among the easiest things to switch out in a tent if you don't like the first choice. Will experiment as you suggest.

Thanks for your comments. I'm wedded to the slightly heavier weight Ti stakes also, because with a good choice of campsite, they usually go in without hammering, only an occasional push with the boot sole.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Sam

> Meant to say Easton ELBOWS without the ferrule tubes inside.
Actually, I rather like the Easton elbows as they are. I think they are neat.
At 3 am at 2,000m in the snow in an 80 kph storm, I prefer 'functional' to SUL.

> were I using 15-20 denier nylon for the canopy, think I'd go to 30D for the sleeves.
Point taken. (Silnylon assumd.) Yeah, maybe.

Ti stakes: dearer, but better. Ti snow stakes are the bees' knees. They come out with reasonable force, when Al one would be utterly frozen in place.

Pictures, must have pictures!

Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

Roger,
Re: "At 3 am at 2,000m in the snow in an 80 kph storm, I prefer 'functional' to SUL."

Funny, I was just conveying that kind of sentiment to Pierre regarding choice of poles for his Cuben Tunnel.

As for elbows, the Fibraplex alloy ones are lighter, but do appear to be quite strong.
Haven't tried to snap one though.

Did you want pictures of tent stakes? Not sure I understand.

[Pierre Descoteaux]

Ok while I'm still thinking of the better Carbon Fiber poles to use for the tent…

I did make the stuff sack. Roger's shoe box analogy worked like a charm.

Anyone did some testing on the Easton Carbon FX poles available from Quest? Not the lightest poles but any feedback would be very welcomed.
Cheers
Pierre

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Sam, and Pierre

Pictures, must have pictures – of the tent in the snow in the mountains!

Interesting about the Fibraplex elbows.

Yes, I have tested the Easton CF poles. They seem 'standard' – OK.

Do NOT use the Easton composite aluminium/CF poles or arrow shafts. They delaminate under winter moutain conditions – which is not surprising.

Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

Debbie,
Alas, I am not able to reply to PMs, and BPL has not been able to resolve that. If you send me another PM with an email address, I'll be glad to respond. Sorry.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Sam

> Alas, I am not able to reply to PMs,
Um – just checking. You do know you cannot 'reply' to PMs? You have to click on the link that is provided to get the send-a-PM page. Just checking.

Cheers

[Chad Helmke]

I just came across this thread and I am awed! I have always thought that if Stephenson's Warmlite tents were already as light as they are utilizing sil, what could they get weight down to with cuben? Excellent work-I'm very impressed! The skill level of the myog folks here never ceases to amaze me!

[Pierre Descoteaux]

As per Roger C's request, a few pictures from the tent in the Canadian Rockies at around 2200m altitude. It was windy all night with a light snow. A Chinook was coming which made for a 40Km/h wind with stronger gusts in the 60s. (no, I did not measure these winds, I do not carry nor own a Kestrel…). Set up and take down on my own was easier than expected despite the wind. I was pleasantly surprised! The tent was not flapping around and was much quieter than my Stephenson 3R and my Kelty Windfoil in the same situation. I found 3 little improvements. I will add a snow skirt out of 0.5cuben. I will also add bungees from the middle of my hood vents to the closest guy ropes in order to keep their opening bigger despite the wind. The only caveat is that I'm still waiting for my Carbon Fiber poles. I had 4 Aluminum poles and the front one was a tad too short (about 2'') which made for a less then perfect pitch at the front end.
I was also testing the carrying abilities of my myog Alpine pack…

I re-discovered my appreciation for soft snow stakes. I'm going to make a few of these!
Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Pierre

OK, I am impressed. That looks very good.
May I copy the photos for possible future use **with full credit to you**?

Cheers

[James Marco]

Well Done, Peirre! Definitely a good sturdy tent!
Enjoy!

[Pierre Descoteaux]

Roger, use pictures as you wish. Email me if you have specific needs or for details.
Cheers
Pierre

[J-L]

That is a beautiful tent! Looks very well done

[Pierre Descoteaux]

How wide should be the strip of fabric used for the snow flap (sod cloth)? I'm debating using left over 0.5osy cuben or left over silnylon. Either way, it will be sewed to the twice rolled bottom edge of the cuben fly. I may also add tiny magnets to hold the flap up inside the fly when they won't be needed or is that simply a bad idea?
Ideas?
Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

> How wide should be the strip of fabric used for the snow flap (sod cloth)?
Silnylon and Cuban are slippery. I suggest 100 mm is too narrow, while 200 mm might be a bit wider than needed.

> I may also add tiny magnets to hold the flap up inside the fly when they won't be needed
I did wonder about that, but I found that nothing was needed on alpine grasslands. The vegetation is not 'smooth'. I just shove the sod cloth out of the way.

Thanks for permission.

Cheers

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Pierre and supporters.

Congrats, hands down this is now one of the top BPL threads of all time. Maximum achievement.

Best regards,

Adam

[Pierre Descoteaux]

Adam and others, thank you for the kind words and support!

It took a while but I finally got the carbon fiber poles from Fibraplex and one made from gold Tip Hunter Arow shafts. The poles are all within only a few grams off of each other ranging from 100g to 104g. The arrow shafts make for a much better pole than anticipated. It looks very professional but I can' take any credit since some else made it for me.
Here is the brake down… Drum roll…
Poles: 406g
Inner: 447g
Attached but removable ground sheet: 134g
Fly including 12 guy lines: 849g
Stuff sack in heavy silnylon: 27g ( well, that's a shame so I'll work on something lighter…)
Total of 1863g

This hole project got me addicted to myog so I'm now drawing a two man tent! And really, let's face it, the BPL crowed is the perfect support group for my OCD issues…
Cheers

[Pierre Descoteaux]

Oups, I forgot the pics with the added snow skirt…

[James Marco]

At just over 4 pounds, I am impressed. Good job, Pierre!

[Ben Pearre]

Phenomenal! After too much lugging my perfect-except-for-the-weight Hilleberg Kaitum and too much futzing with the inspired but unrefined and un-winter-worthy work from the cottage industry, this is truly spectacular. _Almost_ enough to start learning how to sew/bond cuben. I DEMAND THAT YOU IMMEDIATELY QUIT YOUR DAY JOB AND START SELLING THESE ;)

I keep looking at Cuben an worrying about its low melting point—in a storm you may simply need a tent you can cook in. Have you? Have you considered making one vestibule in silnylon so you have somewhere slightly less meltable in which you can cook? Or perhaps hanging a piece of aluminium foil or a spare wool shirt from tabs in the vestibule in order to safe-ish-ly dissipate heat? Any other thoughts?

Any further updates? Is it as wind- and snow-worthy as a Kaitum? Have you broken any poles? What would you do differently?

[Sam Farrington]

Ben,
Sorry to hear about your difficulties with Hilleberg tents.
I’ve experimented at length with applying heat to both silnylon and Cuben. Silnylon melts and/or ignites at lower temps than Cuben. Cuben melts and distorts at slightly higher temps. I have not heat tested nylons with the newer sil/PU coatings, but they have been out for several years now, so probably can be obtained with fire-resistant treatments.

In the event Pierre is not ready to drop everything and go into the tent business, some of the most winter worthy tents are made by Helsport, Crux, MacPac, Wilderness Equipment and One Planet. You might want to take a look at them on line, and make some inquiries about fire resistant treatments.

Some tents have floors that zip or pull back allowing placement of cooking stoves away from the nylon fabric. The Snow Peak Lago had this feature.

I recall that there have been some threads on BPL about installing larger stoves in tents. Don’t have any links, but you might find something with a search on BPL.

Hope this is some help in finding a good, non-futzy winter tent.

[Pierre Descoteaux]

Hello Ben, I produced 2 other tents since this one and they were not Cuban ones. I doubt that one tent per year would compete with massdrop and the like…

The vestibule is plenty big enough for stove use especially when using a gas (lpg) stove. Using naphta would be an other matter but I did grow up using such stoves in winter so using them in a vestibule wouldn’t be new to me. The ends of the tunnel are also pretty steep wich increases these usable portions of the tent.

My one dislike… my inner tent is a tad loose. I’d like to readjust some of the fabric and/or the inner’s ties to make it tighter. It may happen next month.
<p style=”text-align: center;”>Durability: well I’m still not using any of my myog nearly often enough.  A real shame!</p>

[Franco Darioli]

BTW, depending where you are, naphta can mean crude oil, mineral spirit or kerosene.

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