Going TP free, advice wanted.

This is all presuming that you are squatting over your hole-

A good strategy to avoid getting your clothes wet is to pour water from your bottle into your hand, then wipe. A bottle with a spray top also works to provide better aim.

At the end your butt will likely be a little wet but if you use a dry stick or rock to absorb some of the water it'll be fine.

Of course you can also just use rocks, moss, grass etc. to wipe and then just clean your butt however many times a week you desire with soap and water.

toccs:

This is one of those things that seems to loom large… until the moment you actually do it… and then it becomes almost instantly an absolute nothing!

I took up hiking relatively late in life — I was in my early forties when I did my virgin hike. Everything was new — and so was my decision to wipe the way billions of others all around the world do — with hand and water. It was so easy. And no need to count/carry/dispose of TP at all.

But what about the eeeewww factor? Firstly, when spreading / squatting, you expel a heck of a lot more of the stuff out than when you sit on a porcelain bowl with your butt cheeks relaxed and close to each other. Secondly, our poo looks a lot more solid than it really is. When you pour water onto your hand and bring it to your butt and wash with the balls of your finger (I try to avoid fingernail contacts), — you don't feel poo at all.

Wash and repeat a few times, then pull up your synthetic undies and pants — and they'll be dry in no time. Of course, do remember to rinse off your hands and apply a dollop or two of Purell to sanitize — something you would be doing anyway even if you were using TP.

So yeah, definitely give it a try. To me, the experience was quite liberating — and I think a lot of hiking is about simplifying and losing unnecessary inhibitions/encumbrances.

Oh, a few more suggestions:

1. Finish peeing first – somewhere nearby — then locate and make cat hole. Getting the liquid part out of the way reduces the potential for mess and the time you need to spend squatting (for those of us not used to using those particular muscles).

2. When squatting, roll down pants/undies and push toward your knee — not ankles — so they remain above ground and away from action.

3. The billions of folks who use hand/water in lieu of TP generally use their left hand. Right or left, I think it's a good idea to only use one hand to do your business — and make sure that's the one that never comes in contact with your water bottle until after you've washed and sanitized with Purell.

“Maybe, if I was really in the right place to support myself correctly, I might be able to pull that off by leaning way back, but conditions would have to be perfect.”

Body Position is critical….

Are you able to “squat” unsupported, with your butt lower than your knees for the required time?

If not, someone else will have to chime in.

If you can, gravity takes care of water flow.

If you haven’t seen This Video , it’s worth a look.

Greg, I saw that video, that's what got me thinking about changing my practices. I am just trying to refine my techniques before putting them into action, before the shit hits the fan, so to speak. Not dropping trou completely may be the answer to my question. I'm sure I'll figure things out.

I can sustain an unsupported squat for quite a while.
I drop my pants to just below my knees, and keep the pant legs high.
Haven't hit them yet ….

I don't squirt down the back.
I cup some water in my hand and wash from the front. Just easier for me.
I use my hard-sided 1 liter water bottle, pouring as needed, and then for washing my hand(s).

YMMV

no problems loosing the tp. have not carried it in decades. use a washcloth. the more synthetic'y kind work in the bush nicer than the better-at-home nappy cotton ones .. as they wring out to lighter weight, and less stuff sticks to them.
the washcloth gets used for everything except cleaning out wounds. so, do not Ever borrow peter's washcloth. (or water bottle ).
the longer the trek, with any luck, the cleaner the poops, as things firm up over time and distance.
i am old, and wash that area several times a day regardless of poopage. washing is a better way to live than wiping. i use the same program at home.
pretty much, if i stop long enough to take off the pack .. it's butt wash time.
the chosen rag lives in the pack lid.
it does need to be rinsed several times a day.

Bears, deer, wolves, etc…they don't wipe! Why should you? Be one with nature.

*informational purposes only

"Washing is a better way to live than wiping."

That's true. Our butts are much cleaner after washing in our shower — for example — than after wiping with paper. But at home, I still use TP. My bathroom isn't big enough to install a bidet. I think some of the Europeans and Japanese got this thing down better than us.

Squatting position:

Inefficient – too much pressure on calves:

Efficient – a bit less pressure on calves, ass lower to the ground – trousers around knees safely out of the way:

But even with the latter, practicing and exercising those muscles will help.

As an uncoordinated person I am a big fan of removing one leg from pants and underwear. I usually slip my foot back in my shoe for traction. It help a lot for the wilderness bidet thing. Leaning against a tree also help during the first stage if you are not as good at crapping yoga as you once were.

Hard to believe there is a forum thread on how to take a cr@p….are there any earthlings left on the planet?

What's your point?

Marko, that's the "Telemark Stance"

Kerry ,
I didn't intend for it to be a thread on how to take a crap, but how to clean your ass after crapping using water while squatting with your shoes and clothes on. I think there is a certain skill set involved that the average city dweller would never need or know, and that may apply also to a backpacker that only uses toilet paper, like me.

"Marko, that's the "Telemark Stance" "

I probably didn't explain it very well, but it basically the "pants half off" technique. Can be used with any stance you like. :-)

My personal up-against a tree stance is leaning back with both legs forward (semi-telemark?)

"Hard to believe there is a forum thread on how to take a cr@p….are there any earthlings left on the planet?"

Harder to believe anyone who has been reading the forums for more than a week would be surprised. Some of the longest threads on here are crap – um, I mean crap-related. There are a least two laws that govern the BPL forums:

1. Godwin's law (especially in chaff)

2. Marko's law: If crap or crapping in the woods is mentioned on BPL, regardless of the thread topic, the subject will immediately switch to scatological subjects for a finite time before switching back, if ever.

Just a few months back someone posted "self-deprecation is better than self-defecation" and there were about 30 subsequent feces-related joke posts, and even several semi-serious ones.

Ben 2 world,
It is surprising to me how difficult it is (at least for me) to assume squatting position number two as you showed in your previous post. In my travels, I have seen many people hanging around like that, but for a guy who has spent the majority of his life sitting in a chair, that is not so easy to do. I tend to want to fall over (I tend to have that problem randomly throughout the day, anyway).

Hi toccs:

You shouldn't be too surprised, if you are using muscles that you don't normally use. I am in the same boat… although I am blessed with the "ability" to do my business in a quick flash. :)

Had a conversation with a Turk one time when I was traveling over there — and he said it's all a matter of practice. His 60+ year old dad reads the papers front to back — while squatting and doing business — and thinks nothing of it.

Couple of things you can do:

1. Exercise those muscles before a trip. Not so different from doing workout hikes before a long, arduous one, correct?
2. When scouting for a hole, look for large rocks and trees that you can lean or balance against — and alleviate pressure on calves.

I hope you will trust me on this. Once you're out there… everything will be fine. We tend to "over cerebralize" when at home.

Ben,
I am not worried about working out the details of crapping. It is just the ability to adopt that squatting position as a comfortable rest position in any situation that confounds me. I guess it is the need to stretch my calfs and achilles enough to able to keep my feet flat on the ground while leaning far enough forward to not fall over. Whatever it is, something has got to give a little more. I hate falling over. People around the world like to relax in that position, it must be a useful skill to develop when there is nowhere to sit other than in the dirt.

"it must be a useful skill to develop when there is nowhere to sit other than in the dirt."

Indeed. But it also looks 'uncouth' in public.

Tipping over out in the wilds is probably not that bad (though I've never had that problem). This is where you don't want to tip over…

This is reminiscent of barefoot running…you have to spend months reconditioning your muscles and retraining everything you ever did before to make it work.

OR, in this case, you can just bring tp. Weighs practically nothing. AND it's made out of…wait for it…wood. Like the stuff you're walking through in the forest. TP is highly biodegradable. It's going full circle while decomposing in the trees.

You can also easily burn it just after use.

Remind me, what's the point of going without tp?

But as always, hyoh. Just please don't share a bag of gorp with me without fair warning.

"TP is highly biodegradable."

Takes about 2 years in a dry alpine environment.
Longer in a wet environment.
If animals don't dig it up.

…

Roger Dodger,
That is an excellent idea. Perhaps if we ever hike together, we can just pee on each other's hands. Problem solved! If we stayed hydrated enough, our hands may barely smell. Just kidding, my pee will always smell. Keeps the coyotes away.

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