BOGUS WATERPROOF CLAIMS BY BOOT COMPANIES

> Why or how do companies get away with false claims like this?

The majority of consumers wouldn't know the difference maybe?

Actually, this should be brought to the attention of Gore.

Cheers

"Actually, this should be brought to the attention of Gore."

Al Gore?

–B.G.–

has this always been the case with misleading claims about waterproofness?Merrell has agreed the boots are defective and will allow an exchange for similar boot but not the same model-because they maybe know that this model is notorious for leakage??
Im really surprised with the vasques and goretex.

I've used a lot of boots that were Gore-Tex or eVent that were waterproof

Going through wet brush or wet snow

Sometimes they'll be waterproof for a number of trips, then they'll start leaking

I can't think of a pair that leaked like that right at the beginning. Including Merrel

One problem is my socks get damp from sweat. Some boots are worse than others. But they're drier than with breathable boots if I get into wet conditions, especially in cool weather

have any of you used those clunky hiker shoes?i tried some merrell moab ventilators and they were heavy like boots so whats the point -and you dont get the ankle protection?do you all use stuff like nb leadville 1210?

All boots leak… through those big holes at the top where you put your foot in.

I own lots of hiking boots, almost without exception sporting Goretex linings. They have pretty much universally been waterproof for years of hard use, though eventually the material breaks down. We hike through heavy brush including devils club and salmonberry, both of which have thorns. Those can spell an instant end to any waterproof membrane (just ask all my expensive wp/b pants), but all-leather boots will stop those flavors of thorns easily.

If your Goretex boots leak, they will be replaced because that pair was defective, not because the whole concept is faulty.

"I own lots of hiking boots, almost without exception sporting Goretex linings. They have pretty much universally been waterproof for years of hard use"

Maybe he missed that big hole near the ankle.

Even though I now absolutely despise Gortex lined footwear of any kind, and think it is stupid, except maybe in some special conditions, it does work as advertized. Its just the fine print that will kill you.

If it works as advertised, why do you despise it?

The big hole at the top that you put your foot through? – use gaiters

"Even though I now absolutely despise Gortex lined footwear of any kind, and think it is stupid, except maybe in some special conditions"

Except maybe in some special conditions. Yes, absolutely. Like the wilderness of northwestern Canada. Maybe not so much in southern California.

I have almost 25 years of leather/goretex boot usage, and still use them regularly under true wilderness conditions in British Columbia. I use trail runners only for well established park trails. It is all about using the right boot for the terrain and climate, nothing stupid about that.

"Except maybe in some special conditions. Yes, absolutely. Like the wilderness of northwestern Canada. Maybe not so much in southern California."

Yes, of course!

Just not because there might be a puddle on the trail, as I have on more than one occasion seen people on here try to argue. Don't even get me started on GTX lined running shoes.

"Don't even get me started on GTX lined running shoes."

I've tried a couple GTX shoes. I think that works better than anything else.

You need gaiters to keep water out. Mine weigh 1.5 ounces for a pair. Dirty Girls would be good.

Since they're shorter, they're more breathable – my socks don't get so damp as GTX boots.

Obviously, weigh less than boots.

Possibly, boots are better in some rugged, wet, snowy conditions.

Are you sure they are actually leaking. Sweat, and water draining down a wet pant leg/sock can put water in your boot. I have owned a couple waterproof boots over the years and unless torn they have not failed to keep water out.

Never had a problem with GoreTex shoes.
Merrell's "waterproof" ones are another story. I have an old pair of Moab mid-cut boots and a newer pair of the Moab shoes that a manager of a Merrell store conned me into buying under the pretense that Merrell no longer used GoreTex since the patent had expired(after I asked why they had no Gore-Tex versions in the store). I still use the new ones, since they were cheap, but don't trust them or take them where I'll be frequently crossing, or even hiking in, shallow water-which is not uncommon for me, and the reason I love waterproof shoes vs fully ventilated ones. The "high top" version never kept water out.
The Gore-Tex Moabs that I had before were fine, as are the Garmonts that I usually use now.

Dave, you sound like a troll. This is ridiculous. Lots of people have great experience with goretex footwear. Don't put all manufacturers in the same boat.

And what's up with the YELLING…

"The big hole at the top that you put your foot through? – use gaiters"

Anyone that has done hiking in wet conditions know that gaiters are more than a way to keep dirt and twigs out of your shoes. When hiking in snow the sow can fall off the a snow shoe and fall unnoticed into the shoe. Wet feet in cold conditions is not only uncomfortable it can also be dangerous. Long before Gortex was invented people would apply wax and other materials to the leather to make them waterproof and then put gaiters on to prevent water from getting it. If you are hiking in a warm and generally dry conditions (such as California) gaiters are seldom used. However in wet locations (Washington state Alaska) gaiters are frequently used.

"Dave, you sound like a troll. This is ridiculous. Lots of people have great experience with goretex footwear. Don't put all manufacturers in the same boat."

Speak for yourself.The urge for people like you to accuse people and jump all over them is troll behavior.
I am talking about my experience which is not uncommon if you bothered to read the first few replies.You have contributed nothing to this thread.Find something constructive to do please.

My experience: I used GTX-boots for years and eventually they started to leak. For years now, I use non-WP and good draining footwear and it works perfect. And when my feet get wet (which is quite common), they dry quick. As long as my feet stay warm, ther's no problem. OK, in winter there's a much better bigger chance they do get cold. Does that mean you do need WP-footwear then ? Not necessarily. Ever heard of WP-socks, insulated gaiters/overboots, etc … ? There's an interesting series of articles here on BPL about winter travel footwear systems.

The wife has WP-footwear for ages and no leaks.

"Anyone that has done hiking in wet conditions know that gaiters are more than a way to keep dirt and twigs out of your shoes. "

This. I was going to reply, but since this is like the 300th Nietzscheian recurrence on here over the last decade of this exact same conversation/debate I didn't see the point.

301. The problem with GTX keeping your feet dry is how it performs once it is wet on the inside. Does the same job on keeping it in as it does on keeping it out. Once the shoes are wet on the inside they can be murder. Also hard to dry out again sufficient to restore the (already limited) breathability.

Personally, on maybe %80 of my trips I will have to ford at least 1 stream way above the tops of my shoes. Gaitors are useless in that situation.

"Personally, on maybe %80 of my trips I will have to ford at least 1 stream way above the tops of my shoes. Gaitors are useless in that situation."

302

I go above the tops of my boots maybe 5% of the time. Or less.

I agree that GTX takes forever to dry, so doesn't make sense in this case.

I've taken my boots off and crossed – and cut my foot. Some people take water shoes. Either of these take time and fiddling. Breathable shoes probably better in this case.

"I go above the tops of my boots maybe 5% of the time. Or less."

Ah, well there you go then. Big difference.

For me taking GTX shoes in the backcountry, and then trying to tipi-toe around water, or taking them off fording when I need them the most, or carrying water shoes to pamper them, would be like taking a particularly high-maintenance, whiny person along who complains there are no porto-potties and every time they get buzzed by a bee – and then gives you trench foot.

This has nothing to do with me Dave. Using the word "companies" makes your statement too broad.

Your experience is not YELLING material . Use your guarantee with those two specific companies and move on. That's what a guarantee is therefore.

But still, thank you for mentioning those two specific models :-)

Take care,
Peter

I could have expressed myself a tad friendlier to begin with. For that I apologise.