Campsite Rage Cure?

The Big Picture can bite me! When someone is using a thumb screw on you you don't think about the Big Picture. And the person standing next to me pontificating about the big picture can go jump in a lake. But much of the time the pontificating and the thumb screw are one and the same.

Two examples:

A simply amazing campsite right on the shores of Lake Superior. One of the most amazing sunsets I have ever had the pleasure to witness. Wonderful friends, a great hike…..

But by 2am I would have done ANYTHING to turn off the waves. ANYTHING………….

And don't even get me started on whippoorwills. When they start it's wonderful!!! Then, OK, that's nice. Seriously, I get it…move along now. ANYTIME now, just fly on by. OK….WHO BROUGHT THE SLINGSHOT????

"The Big Picture can bite me! When someone is using a thumb screw on you you don't think about the Big Picture. And the person standing next to me pontificating about the big picture can go jump in a lake. But much of the time the pontificating and the thumb screw are one and the same."

Well, like most or all things, it's relative to some extent. Oh, i've had quite a life and a lot of challenges and a lot of suffering, and very much apply the big picture to that which is why despite that and current challenges, i'm a relatively stress free and joyful type person. I do have my moments though, but having been through Fire, harder to sweat the small stuff as much.

Now, if someone was trying to literally put a thumb screw into me, i would likely knock them out–that can also fit into the big picture…in applying consequences when really needed. But to compare someone impersonally expressing their personal philosophy on an internet forum to that of putting a thumb screw into another, well that obviously smacks of a lot of internal drama, stress, and need for a much bigger picture philosophy and greater personal maturity.

After all, YOU asked for advice of a forum and i answered as only i could, truthfully and from experience.

;)

Whippoorwills sound nice to me, but I get it – it is a matter of degree. Some times you have a fever, and the only cure is more whippoorwill (or owls for that matter). Other times…not so much. But when you have had you fill then more just makes you want to claw your eyes out.

We had a flock of wild (technically feral on the west coast) turkeys come and camp about 50 feet in the forest in back of my house two years ago. They were there for about 4 days and nights, and it was mating season. There was gobbling involved – lots of gobbling. For like the first 6 hours we were all like "isn't it great we live in place where the Turkeys can visit?" The kids in the next house up were gobbling back at them. However, when the gobbling was still going on at 3 in the morning we all had a very different perspective on the issue. The same can be said of fellow campers making loud noises next to your tent at that hour.

They "went away" after several days, but I'm not entirely sure the neighbors with the kids don't have a freezer full of turkeys up there now, as no sign of them, or little turkeys, was ever seen again.

BTW, librarian shushes are a kind of super power. I don't know if they would work simply by sound, but if so maybe there is an app for that to play them. More likely they have to include the chastising scowl from a certified librarian to work. I imagine the librarians receiving their shushes in a box with their librarian diplomas.

Craig, of course everybody has been drunk, having fun, but there's definitely different ways to do that. Some people are just idiots.

1) I have an air horn, very small, purchased some time ago – am considering taking it for those hike-out-six-miles with the "easy slow" backpackers in my group, for when the drunken crazies park their 8 lb Texsport, three mouthy dogs, and axe about 15 feet from us on the shores of the subalpine lake where we're fishing. Dog runs up and barks at me from six feet away – blast of the air horn. Chopping wood at 2 am – blasts of the air horn. Seriously – in the middle of a friggin' fire ban, people are chopping wood from 2 pm – 2 am, chatting AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS and acting like they are the only people in the world? We asked for some courtesy. They kept going.

2) I am not above taking pictures and video and hiking back out to show a ranger the true depth of their lawlessness and carelessness. A representative going over to "make friends" in the name of getting their names and maybe a "hey, there was a bear kind of messing with a red pickup back the parking lot – what do you drive" attempting to id their vehicle so there's a license plate to go with the pics? why not? when they're chopping live trees, letting their German shepherds harass everyone repeatedly, building bonfires 10 feet tall that are licking at the branches in the pines overhead, and firing guns randomly – they deserve a good fine or three.

3) When there are able hikers in the group, and the camps aren't designated – hiking elsewhere even after dark becomes an option.

Lori,

As Barney once said:

"Citizens arreeeeest! Citizens Arreeeeest!"

I like this statement as quoted from the OP:

'Later from various clues (as I hand no opportunity to think clearly about anything else due to the noise) I determined that this was 2 (also very loud) supervisory adults, and about 5 supervise-ees, at least one of which was of adult age, that were mentally handicapped. So after I realized that I had to relinquish even the tiny shred of satisfying indignancy I had to hold onto. They were probably there then for the same reason I was – because it was unlikely anyone else would have a reservation there that night.'

The realization of the circumstance of the annoyance in this situation may have prevented me from completely popping my cork. I do not agree though 'that everybody has a right to enjoy the outdoors how they like.' I believe there is the expectation of peace in the enjoyment of the outdoors that should be mutually respected. Well, at least between 10pm-6am as is the standard in most regulated campgrounds. Although a conversation can sometimes be beneficial an obnoxious and rowdy campsite is seldom met and resolved by polite discourse.

While planning to stay at a campground pack ear plugs, headphones with music, or implement a plan B.

My last camp experience was met with the morning symphony of song birds next to a beautiful meadow….only to be interrupted with a dialogue between two Ravens. I actually do like Ravens but their continuos rabble had me contemplating just how fast and how far I could throw rocks at these perpetrators who were disturbing the tranquillity of the moment. Arrggg.

Ear plugs plus long duration hippy music on the iPod. The last Neil Young song I downloaded was 27 minutes.

If it helps, the same thing can happen even in decent hotels …

"What do other people do in such situations?"

Best advice I got, is suffer it the best you can at the time, and then post a thread later to a backpacking community venting about it.

I think a worse situation, is when the people causing it are in your own group, and you're the only one trying to quiet things down. So, when I hear a continual ruckus in another campsite, I like to imagine there is a person like me in the group, who is stressing out while trying to rein in the noise, but the people they are with aren't getting it. Then I focus my energy on empathizing with that imaginary person.

If I'm out on a solo hike and come into a public campsite and on one side I see a group of people enjoying themselves and on the other a camper sulking under his cuben fibre tarp I'm pretty sure I know who I'd rather sit and chat with if I have the time.

Don't camp in populated areas if you can't tolerate normal human behaviour, which can sometimes be annoying.

I don't mean to sound like an a*s, but man, this holy than thou attitude pisses me off. Live and let live. Where I hike it's usually a pleasant surprise to run into others. It makes me content to know that there are others out exploring nature, even if sometimes they are just there to sit around a camp fire and socialize. Give other's the benefit of the doubt, and expect them to give you the same.

Whining and pouting because people are enjoying themselves is ridiculous unless they are actually causing damage, burning unsafe fires, or acting otherwise illegally.

That's just my opinion after a number of beer around the campfire.

Cheers…

Travis, there's a pretty big difference between yelling and socialising…

"Travis, there's a pretty big difference between yelling and socialising…"

Well, when the car camping beserking rage OR drink fueled socializing comes out, the lines can blur or judgment goes out the window. ;)

Marko Smash! Personally, i suspect someone hasn't had some good luving in awhile, and is a little tense. Happens to the best of us, and this too shall pass.

"Don't camp in populated areas if you can't tolerate normal human behaviour, which can sometimes be annoying.

I don't mean to sound like an a*s, but man, this holy than thou attitude pisses me off. Live and let live. Where I hike it's usually a pleasant surprise to run into others. It makes me content to know that there are others out exploring nature, even if sometimes they are just there to sit around a camp fire and socialize. Give other's the benefit of the doubt, and expect them to give you the same.

Whining and pouting because people are enjoying themselves is ridiculous unless they are actually causing damage, burning unsafe fires, or acting otherwise illegally."

So to summarize your post:

1. The OP shouldn't have vented–it was "ridiculous" for him to expect quiet in a campground
2. The OP and the posters that commiserated with the OP are holier than other campers
3. You are holier than both those posters and the OP, because anything that isn't illegal, unsafe, or damaging doesn't annoy you to the point venting

Take the same good will you'd bring to the noisy campground, and apply it to the posters here: a guy had a bad experience, he vented, people commiserated.

Say "That's too bad, man" and move on.

"1. The OP shouldn't have vented–it was "ridiculous" for him to expect quiet in a campground"

I don't know a lot about what campgrounds are like in other parts of the US or the world, but here on the East Coast, when one goes to a campground campsite, you pretty much are placing large bets in the houses favor that there are going to be either loud drunk people or family's with loud children somewhere near you. I have trouble trying to remember a time when i didn't experience that at an established campground dealio.

It's pretty much a give in at such places at least ime at east coast camp ground camping sites. To be sure, i'm not talking semi camp grounds off the AT that are often free, low price, and/or frequented by more serious hiker types. However, some of that does happen there too sometimes.

Perhaps things are different on the West Coast? I don't know. As for the rest, well i've gotten personal enough here already, mostly starting with good intentions and with some light hearted fun, but i think it's starting to border the unhelpful and mean spirited so i decline further comments. I can understand the annoyance some, and the need to vent, but either way on either side it's not a big deal. I think Travis makes some good points, and yet i think others more sympathetic have made some good points. "Truth" is often found somewhere in the blend of grey, lit up in bright White Light.

My wife and I car camped on a big site in the Belgian Ardennes and got taken to task by our neighbours in the morning as apparently our pads were noisy and kept our neighbours awake, obvisously they were too tight to purchase ear plugs.

Yes, camp sites in Europe or much similar to the US but generally more compact and privately owned so the may ask you to leave.

Some friends of mine went camping in a campground. They were all alone, it was early…no one else in the campground had arrived yet (and it was generally a sparsely used campground, but still the kind where all the sites were smashed close together).

So they decided to get it on a bit in the tent. VERY enthusiastically, I might add.

When they were finished and unzipped the tent to go out, they found themselves very closely surrounded by families with lots and lots of young kids.

Who said anything about sulking?

"unless they are actually causing damage, burning unsafe fires, or acting otherwise illegally."

Like in the examples given.

Golden Rule still applies.

Respect and manners still can work if applied by all.

Just to be clear the OP did not vent (except to you guys, and it was never about the other party's "bad" behavior per se, nor what I should do/say to THEM, but about its effect on me). I realize some of you are responding to response to the responses, and so on. Just setting the record straight.

I almost never complain to the "perpetrators" as I clearly would have no real standing to do so in most cases. Also I feel that to ever do more than politely ask once, just to make sure the others are aware of their effect on me, is to become myself a contributor to the "discord". I realize this is a very namby-pamby way to approach such problems, but I feel it is not very self-aware (indeed self-centered) to become an obnoxious person in response to another obnoxious person.

As I said, in the case in question it was two supervisory adults, a man and a woman, and several mentally handicapped people, an adult and several younger folks. I'm sure they were in that spot then because they wanted to give them that experience, and this was a spot where they would have minimal chance of having the added complexity of having a crowd. In spite of the couple of death threats, I have to say that they did seem to enjoy the experience. It should have been a message to me then, as it is now, that I have it really good and the solitude and peace I want (and have so often) is not even an option for a lot of people.

From thinking about it, and from some peoples advice, I think the problem WAS in fact that I had a specific goal – I was dead set on the birds and later the owls. I should have probably gone down and said Hi, but I definitely should have concluded to enjoy the situation in a different way. For example I could have hiked down the trail until dark to listen to the birds – its a major mixing spot near the coast where there is a huge concentration of species, BTW.

In my case it took a while to scope out the situation and instead I just waited for the noise to stop. In the present case it was not going to stop while the other folks were awake, and my frustration grew until I realized the special nature of the situation. Waiting for it to stop and assuming it would was the wrong attitude for the situation. Take home message, don't sit around and wait – change plans (within constraints) quicker next time.

I don't think I would have asked them to be quiet, even if they had been a normal family. But I would have diffused the frustration part better by changing tracks – I think I stubbornly held onto the thing I had planned to get out of that night. Possibly retreating into my shelter to get away from the mosquitoes also made this worse – making it artificially feel like I was "trapped" with the extraordinary noise.

Just to be clear, my comments weren't aimed at any specific individual. Just a beer-induced, holier than thou opinion ;)

Glad you were able to get some introspection from the experience. I know how frustrating it can be when things don't turn out the way you hope. I find the weather dashes my expectations more than anything.

Cheers…

Actually Travis, your original advice to be flexible what pretty much right on.

Maybe we can all just agree that if you're not camping alone on the summit of a 14'er with a SUL baseweight, you're not doing it right?

;)

HYOH…err…CYOC?

Glad to see the levity and introspection and beer.

Well, personally I can empathize. As a general rule, I avoid humanity when I camp. I don't even like to see other people camped nearby, let alone be able to hear them. But I did have the misfortune of camping in a state park campground about a month ago and yes, the kids were screaming still at 2am. I don't mind listening to the wind, the waves, the loons (the bird kind) but cannot stand listening to humans screaming their bloody heads off. Go to bed already.

Any campsite within 0.5 mile of a place you can park a car, is a place to avoid.

Seriously, and without fail.

If its not ridiculous loud car campers, its a local party spot for teenagers.

The balance tips for me when it becomes a matter of harm to me. I have been attacked by a "nice" dog as has my dog. I have also hiked through a forest fire for a while – not a roaring, tree jumping one, but it was stressful enough to be on a narrow dirt path surrounded by charred and flaming things. I don't have asthma and it was difficult to breathe.

Right now the areas I hike in the Sierra are so dry, the place is a tinder box. And people have a woefully ignorant view of how "expert" they are with fires. The roaming dog issue is perpetual – people think dogs need to be out of control to enjoy the wilderness, let them run around in an environment they have no business being loose in, and the end result is usually the dog gets hurt or hurts someone, or at least drives away the wildlife.

At least my next trip is high elevation enough to be mostly in granite, so we won't be surrounded by flaming crackling pines in the event of a lightning fire or some lunatic going nuts in the middle of a ban.