the opposite of ultralight

Great story Jennifer, and a perfect reminder as to why we get so persnickety with our gear lists.

On the flip side, I see a lot of day hikers in cotton sweats and flip flops without a shred of gear– not even a water bottle, let alone a map or flashlight. I know they have no clue how dark it gets! SAR test dummies I guess.

I've seen the same exact thing Dale. One time we passed a group of very out of shape people wearing jeans, casual shoes, and t-shirts on our way out of the Sawtooths. Not one of them had a backpack or water with them, didn't know how to get to the lake they were headed to (they asked us directions) and none had been up there before. The were all extremely worn out by this point and moving slowly (I'm slow and out of shape too, I'm no elitist) and in the kind of physical and mental state where mistakes are made.

It had been snowing on us a night before and around 1000ft higher than we met them on the trail and as with many areas of the nation the weather can change for the worse quickly. They were only about three miles from the trailhead and another three miles from their destination so if something had happened they would have probably been able to get back to town for help but the sight of people so incredibly unprepared just irked me. Expecting someone else to rescue you and going completely unprepared in every way, shape and form just drives me nuts.

From personal experience I grew up with parents that were on the scared/overly "prepared" side of backpacking. We carried old external frame packs full of canned goods, way too much water, tons of clothes, horrible sleeping bags that didn't keep us warm and huge fiberglass poled tents. We were pretty miserable hiking and I can remember complaining many times about carrying close to 50% of my body weight and was in pain and worn out.

Before getting into the lightweight mindset I was hauling around 24% of my bodyweight and was fine with it but now that I'm down around 14-17% for mult-day trips it's been very liberating. I'm trying to lose weight and get into better shape to help things out further. This site has been instrumental in leaning out my gear list.

Jennifer—Your post about bringing out a huge box of pancake mix reminds me of Johnny Molloy pulling out his 28oz box of Hungry Jack—

Now, if anyone knows Molloy they know he is no rank beginner and backpacks more and has more bag nights than all of us—and of course has written dozens of trail guide books.

There's probably some kind of intricate cycles going on with backpackers whereby seasoned experts exhibit some of the behaviors of rank newbies—i.e. the old hands want to carry whatever they feel like carrying and in his case it's a box of Hungry Jack. BTW, he also had a full plastic bottle of ketchup with about 2 ounces of it in the bottom of the bottle ha ha ha BUT I'M NOT JUDGING.

I take books, 45lbs of food, candles, incense, etc. Once even a whole watermelon. On short 5 day trips I even carry canned foods as 5 days is super short, my food load is small anyway and I don't mind humping the empty cans til the end.

Always instructive to see what folks do and carry. I promote light weight as much as possible with my son and other scouts but you can only do so much. Last trip we did not do a shakedown prior to the trip due to a busy meeting and mistake basically. One new scout had two cast iron skillets – not surprising he struggled even without his share of the tent.

My base weight was 20.5 which was heavier than usual due to some extra gear I was trying out.

On the other end was the venture scout who decided to try out a hammock (lots of the venture guys hang – think it is cultural to show their independence) but of course had no bottom insulation since he didn't know what he was doing. Temperature was down to 48 and he froze… may need to have a meeting on hammocking since there appears to be a gap there!

Back in the 70s, my dad used to bring pancake mix plus a griddle and a restaurant pancake maker, which is like a large aluminum thing that squirts out perfectly-sized pancakes. He'd also bring a volleyball and a pump and a full-sized volleyball net and an aluminum folding chair. Plus fishing gear.

I met this lady hiking barefoot on the JMT. The trail was hot and she'd pull out flip-flops every now and then when her feet got too hot. She was as tiny as her pack was huge.

Here she is with her flip-flops. She was really cool. She had been hiking barefoot on the JMT since she was 16 years old but now that she's older she said she's not as tough as she used to be.

We hiked together for quite a while. She was pretty fast even with that big pack and no shoes.

Well besides me at my first hikes with a 70lt backpack, a heavy tent and synthetic sleeping bag, some food cans, too much water and lots of unnecessary stuff…

Look at him, he’s a a native guide at Venezuelan Tepuys.

I was crossing a river with my partner trying not to fall because the water stream was very strong, when we saw him jump like a grasshopper, he took my pack with his right hand and my partner’s pack with his left and jump all the way up (yes he managed to do that while still carrying his huge pack).

Outstanding!

Some images i pulled off of Facebook after memorial day weekend. note the hatchet AND shovel

EDIT: i do not know these people.

This is a great thread, I realized it took me 15 years of not hiking very far to undo the be prepared motto. That should come with an addendum, but ONLY be prepared. Or something. To the scout troop leaders, all those working with young people, keep spreading the good word. Wishing my troop wasn't car-camping centered, all the good stuff is at least a few miles in!

Just found a scanned pic on my computer of my 7.5lb+, 7000ci Astralplane Overkill on break during an *overnighter* at a local state park ~15yrs ago, and thought of this thread.
Yes, the cook kit was just for making coffee…

Nice! I bet that coffee tasted amazing after carrying that monster around.

For myself, when I was 22 and graduated from college I wanted to hike and hitchhike along the Mediterranean. Expecting to be gone for months or possibly years, I packed accordingly. I grew up in cowboy country in rural, podunk southern Texas, and the only real outdoor activities people would pursue revolved around livestock and shooting animals. (Luckily my mom's side is Lebanese so I had a bit of culture to me, or otherwise…*shudder*)

I had no notion of what it took to backpack, and I didn't do a lot of research except for the places I wanted to go. (I had been camping numerous times growing up and knew I loved that though.)
I was high on ideals and adventure!

I packed a ridiculous amount of stuff, and my backpack-itself was 70L, 4000 cu. in., and weighed almost 4 lbs.
I weighed the pack before I left, and it was about 68 lbs–over half my body weight!

I miserably carried the beast around for 2 weeks before I ditched it and used only the 900 cu. in. daypack that had come with it, wrapping a strap around my giant sleeping bag to carry it in my hand. I left the backpack and 90% of the belongings to a bum community in Sevilla, Spain that lived in tents and on couches by a bridge.

I ended up finding a beach in northern Sicily that I fell in love with, and lived in my tent on the beach there for almost 3 months.

Me, after ditching 60 lbs. of weight (notice bum community behind me, where I left all of my stuff). Happy and light, this was my UL revelation!
—
View from the tent I lived out of for 3 months in Sicily. Those mountains and that sea…*sigh*
—

but i hope my kids pay me back someday and carry all my crap…

Philmont 2004 thats me dead center with about a 90l pack on.

I just saw this link and thought of this thread:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trail-Agadez-20-Person-10-Room-Tunnel-Tent/23657581
.
At 118.27 lbs it's still almost 6lbs per person–but, it's also only $15 per person. So if you can organize 19 of your friends to be in one place at one time, I guess it can at least be ultralight on your wallet. :)

Wow- 118 lb tent.

But…why does that 20 man tent cost less than my 2 person tent????

It's likely made with the cheapest possible materials and made in a country without a minimum wage or labor laws.

@Virginia Craft
That sounds amazing. I can only imagine what that experience must have been like.

Me last year on a 2-night hike in RMNP.

Biggest offender was my boy scout "be prepared" mindset. Extra pair of jeans (yes, jeans…), 3 pairs of socks, 3 shirts, large synthetic sleeping bag, etc.

Actually, my sleeping bag and BearVault took up most of the empty space in my pack.

I've wizened up a bit.

We passed an active army guy a year ago, "turtled" on his back, still strapped in. He said he was too tired to unstrap or get up. He said he'd be fine, just wanted to lay there.

His gear was standard military depo stuff. Not particulary bad. What was killing him was he had packed 2 weeks of canned food for him and his dog for a 200 mile trip. In addition, he had an axe, saw, machete for cutting firewood. Easily 80-100 lbs.

I led a fun trip with an outdoor club where someone lied about their experience – first significant climb (8k in, and 4k from our campsite) they just couldn't do it. This was so big guy. So me, another girl, and a guy took turns carrying his pack on our front with our own packs on our backs. On the way out we redistributed his stuff amongst all the group.

He was a real douche too, told me I'd make someone a good husband one day. I was like 'Dude, I'm not the MAN who can't carry a PACK. STFU and grow a pair.'

(I didn't say that, being a good volunteer – I just ignored him)

That, and the first intro to winter backpacking trip I led, it didn't occur to me to tell people not to bring packages of single serving pudding (because who does that? It weighs a ton!). Some guy did and it all froze. Hahahahaha.

Once upon a time I was half of a radio direction finding team, humping this:

http://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-11-5825-278-12-2.pdf

My half, plus batteries, had to be pushing 60 pounds. (I had the antenna and one box.) This is ON TOP OF our personal kit- helmet, weapon, ALICE pack, MOPP suit, sleeping bag, canvas shelter half, LBE with two canteens, etc. Thank God that back then we only had the PASGT vests and not the modern ones that weigh 35 pounds…

There were really four of us on the team, but more than once we ended up down to just two bodies for one reason or another.

The humping was also relatively short distances. For instance up a mountain from the vehicle. :)

Good Grief! AN/PRD-11 looks like a real brick. All I had to carry was the AN/PRC-25 with a spare battery, and then all of my personal stuff. However, Infantry distances are long.

–B.G.–

We would throw out the packboard, throw the radio and spare batteries in our ALICE pack. I was a Combat engineer. We had wheelbarrows, but they were a bit ungainly on long hikes through the woods. Some of our pioneer kits weighed 200+ pounds and were a four man carry and had these tiny wooden handles to grab onto. Obviously an officer thought that device up to torture the enlisted.

GF and I came down off Mt Katahdin last year and the trail to Chimney Pond campgound from Roaring Brook was loaded with people carrying these huge packs to spend one night. They didn't fit right and the packs were wobbling all over the place. I was going to say something to this one old couple but my GF shot me a look and shut me up. They looked like they were struggling to stand upgright.

I was never really over lightweight standards, even as a Scout my base pack weight was about 20-22pounds. I read a couple of good old school books that taught to count the ounces and the pounds would take care of themselves :-)

However, one trip to SW Tasmania a long time ago now (2005), I ended up with 35kg inc food and water. That was about 16 days of food (trip ended up being 13 days). Not so bad, I was really fit. It was fairly standard Bushwalking Gear in Australia for those conditions. Included a ~3.4kg One Planet Expedition Rucksack (up to 100L). Anyway, the worst part was that one of the other three guys on the trip hand't been in a big bushwalking trip for a while. He was a bit older. He packed a rediculous amount of food. I mean rediculous. Several 1kg blocks of cheese kind of rediculous. Hey, the food on that trip was great! But the first two days on the relative flats through the Peat Bogs (swamps) of the Arthur Plains, right from the start, there was no way he could carry it. He couldn't even fit it in his Macpac Torre, he had it in two sail bags of ~25L each with cord between them, trying to drape it around his neck. Must have been a good 6-7kg per bag.

So after 200m, I took out some and jammed it in my pack, to the brim, then I had to carry those bags, now about 4kg each too. I was probably hauling in excess of 45kg those first two days (I did drop a couple of litres of water as I realised exactly how wet it was down there…pnly ever needed a pint at a time, max) until we reached our food drop point. And I was eating like a pig the whole trip.

That trip absolutely confirmed me that I wanted to change ways and go ultralight. I had been reading BPL for a couple of years by that point (from very early days of the website), and it was hard to reconcile the knowledge and gear on BPL at the time against the Australian experience and Australian conditions. Being a student too (My God I still am…) I couldn't afford to just buy all new gear when I had gear that would last a long time. For example, an UL pack at the time like a GoLite Jam or a GG G4 would have been torn to shreds on that trip in the first day of scrub, plus wouldn't have been able to carry two weeks of food. On the walk out from the Western Arthur Range, I did a lot of mental arithmetic though, and figured that if I ever got the chance to return there, on that trip with a group, my base weight would be 6kg, including a tough rain jacket and pack to deal with scrub and scrambling (Poncho up the direct ascent of Federation Peak is probably not a good idea…neither was a pack made from 30D sil).

With a 6kg base pack weight I figured I was more than capable of carrying in a whole months food and doing some rather serious, long trips into the Wilderness. Yet to have the opportunity to carry it out…it will happen :-)

I do wish I'd snapped a picture of the guy I saw heading up Goat Ridge in the Goat Rocks Wilderness of WA state some years ago. He was tall and thin, wearing one of those huge external frame packs that was wider than his shoulders and stuck way up above his head. And he had a second pack strapped on top of that one, shoulder straps strapped/tied somehow around the top of the first one. He was moving surprisingly fast with long, energetic strides, but was breathing too hard to muster up a "howdy" in return to mine.