Ultralight Shelters

What was it that made you uncomfortable vs. a traditional tent?

Can you explain a bit more about what you mean by not feeling comfortable in it?

Is it wind? Openness? Animals? It'd be easier to help if I knew what exactly was bothering you.

(also; nice to see you over here too Danny)

I've got a Scarp1 but my next step in tent weight reduction will be the Tarptent Moment DW, I'm waiting for it's arrival but you could use something like that. My bivy bag would be fine for most of my trips but I mostly walk with others so I don't mind the weight penalty of a lightweight double skin tent.

To transition, you could remove or un-clip the inner and lay on top like a ground sheet. If there are too many creepy/crawly bugs etc, re-clip the inner and get inside.

I think it's the feeling of being exposed, to the weather mainly, or not having somewhere to climb into rather than just climbing under something if that makes sense? As I think about it it's very strange that a couple of thin pieces of nylon could bring any security at all, I always took a lot of enjoyment from putting up a tent at the end of the day and climbing in it. Did most people on this forum naturally start with these shelters? I hope I've explained it a little better.

Exactly – two thin pieces of nylon is an illusion of security

That's what I started with, and then moved to one layer with no floor. About half the time I just sleep under the stars.

With a tarp with raised edges, as I continue to learn on occasion, if it's windy and rainy, I get wet inside. Or sandy or dirty. But I have a bivy and my sensitive gear is in weatherproof bags so it's not too bad.

Danny, I reckon just about everyone goes through what you're talking about.

There's the mental and the logistical side of the it. As to the later, there are plenty of conditions where a tarp, mid, etc is less than ideal, but that happens much less often than is commonly portrayed. Most often the issue boils down to the feeling of security. If you're invested in overcoming it, an adaptable shelter makes sense. Get a tent with a droppable inner, or a mid or tarp with net tent. Leave the inner at home or in the pack occasionally, and see how you do. If you don't care to overcome it, buy a tent that works for you and move along. Not a big deal.

First time I used a tarp-type setup (BA tent in the otherwise-pointless 'fast-fly' mode) I was surprised by how sheltered (psychologically) I still felt. Obviously, not your experience.

Once I unwisely camped in an over-used spot with a full tent–a mouse kept me up for hours running all over the tent looking for a way in. Finally, it chewed a hole, run through the tent in about 30 seconds, found out there was no food inside, and left for good.

Another time, under a tarp, I had rodents run across me several times during the night. This was a national park–had no choice but to stay in an established camp. Disconcerting.

In architecture, we talk a lot about prospect and refuge. Both are pretty important human desires, and go way back. As creatures, we seem to want to be embraced by walls and a roof, and have a wide view out to the horizon.

Cheers guys,

I actually feel better about the whole situation already. I somehow felt that because everyone else does it I should feel comfortable doing it as well, not allowing for the process of change. Knowing that you guys had to make a shift also makes my own mental state easier to work with, it's interesting how our feelings of inadequacy fade very quickly once we realise we are not alone in a particular experience.
I'll go with your advice of a detachable inner net with my shelter of choice to make the shift smoother.
I really appreciate your support, sitting on the outside I found this forum to be great for information, entering into it I see that it's worth so much more!

All the best everyone,

Danny

Tarptent makes some cool tents, and they are lightweight. Plus they have a floor, mesh doors that zip shut (to keep bugs out), are roomy and have big doors. I've been in bad weather with my Sqaull 2, and its roomy enough for my slightly claustrophobic wife to share with me. The Squall 2 is less than 2 lbs (no footprint, using hiking poles for setup).

The only disadvantage is if camping on sand or solid rock, a free standing tent is just a little easier to set up. In a dust storm everything inside is going to get dusty.

reading your situation…your comment about smthin to crawl into vs under, etc
my thought is this…you are building a mental muscle w/ this issue
…and the best exercise i can think of is sleeping under nothing but sky.
spend several nights under the stars w/ no roof over you, in fair weather of course, and you will build that muscle qwikly and efficiently. That illusion of safety will take care of itself.

> Exactly – two thin pieces of nylon is an illusion of security
Snicker.
On a calm warm night with no insects around, sure.
Now try 2,000 m, 60 kph wind, light rain, and 5 C. The security of a tent starts to become a shade more apparent.
Horses for courses.

Cheers

I once spent a couple of weeks nestled into a North Face Expedition Tent where it was high, cold, and windy. I was very happy to have those two layers of nylon.

–B.G.–

I'm glad you enjoy the process of putting a tent up. I personally hate doing that as I do most other camp chores. So much so that I started to cowboy camp (sleep out under the stars) when the weather allowed starting back in 2007. That took a few weekend trips to get fully use to as I would notice every noise around me much louder it seemed without a tents walls. Now after years of doing so, when weather forces me under a tarp, it feels really confining to me.

My entire shelter system is now based around the idea that I will cowboy camp and my shelter is for bad weather only so I want the lightest thing that will keep me dry. The best thing is to know your own likes and style of how you want to camp and base your gear system around that. For me that's a tarp/bivy shelter system. For some people, cowboy camping or a tarp will never work for them. Funny thing is, I was in a much worse situation then Roger described above with a tarp and was very happy with the results when I was testing my gear for a PCT thru-hike. But clearly other people wouldn't have been which is why there is such a large choice of gear out there to choose from.

Tarping is not a whole lot different from tenting. Tents are enclosed, warm, and dry.
Tarps are open, cooler, and sometimes buggier.

Getting used to sleeping out tarping is really no different than getting used to sleeping out camping. A mouse can sound like a skunk and a 'coon will sound like a bear. Pesty critters that often keep me awake for 5 minutes after I figure out what they are. A nice distraction over the sounds of the owls, bobcat, and the distant calls of the loons.

Anyway, sleeping under a tarp is really no different than sleeping under a lean-to roof. At least in the ADK's, I don't think I have ever run across one that was enclosed. First night jitters? Sometimes. I have found some badly trashed campsites, and despite doing what I can to clean them up, I always wonder if I got everything. I often see older stuff kicking around and wonder how interested the critters actually are. I clean up any site just to be sure. Just hang, box, or seal up(in a bear container)ALL food well away from camp. Change your cloths before sleeping, if you get paranoid about critters, and hang them, too. I am usually too tired to care whether I am doing the eating or tother way around, though. Take your tarp to a campground somewhere. Sleep under it. It won't really bother you after that. Public campgrounds are the worst. If you can survive a few people running around making midnight runs and the blasted lights, you can sleep anywhere in the wilds. It is peaceful in comparison.

Sounds like psychological problem, if you bought an inner for the Duomid, it's only 14oz and you have something to crawl into. Basically just like all other tents just not freestanding. Did you use the cuben Duomid in bad weather or in high bug conditions that caused a bad experience?

I went through a progression from a traditional Sierra Designs tent to a TT Rainbow, to a Zpacks Hexamid Solo. The very first night out in the Hexamid, while hiking solo, I got hit by a nasty thunderstorm. High winds, hail, heavy rain. Initially, I was freaked out because the Hexamid seemed so small and fragile. However, I had practiced good site selection (thanks to reading the BPL forums) and the Hexamid provided more coverage then I thought possible in that small of a package and has proved very tough. I went as minimal as a Golite Poncho/Tarp, but decided that was a bit too minimal for my tastes, but did ride out 2 nights of rain under the Golite once. For me, it was a question of gaining some experience and confidence.

"Now try 2,000 m, 60 kph wind, light rain, and 5 C. The security of a tent starts to become a shade more apparent. Horses for courses."

What kind of commercially available tent would you consider a good horse for that course?
A friend of mine is just looking for something for those conditions.

I hiked the JMT, 27 days, with no tent. We had plastic tube tents, which we could put up and get in if it rained. Other than 2 days when it rained, we used them as ground cloths and slept under the stars. Didn't think anything about it.

Get a Tarptent Notch.

After you get used to using it as a double wall tent begin using the fly only as a very nice tarp that happens to have zippered doors.

I was a cowboy camper in my younger days and went backwards from most people on BPL. As I get older, I am less willing to deal with the bugs, critters, and "surprises" that Mother Nature always seems to send my way.

My catch 22 is that I am also unwilling to carry the kinds of loads I did back then.

My answer came with when I discovered my Tarptent Rainbow. At 2 lbs, I hardly notice the extra pound of my shelter and I get the best of both worlds. Solid protection from the bugs, rodents, elements, etc. at a very small weight penalty. I also recently bought a BA Copper Spur UL. I'm going to use it for my trips, when rain is likely to be substantial.

I think my tarp and bivy days are over. But, I'm looking forward to many more years of backpacking with these two tents in my arsenal. By spending a little more on Western Mountaineering bags, sub 3 lb. packs, and ultra lite sleeping pads, I am more comfortable than ever and humping significantly lighter loads than before.

You can go lite and go comfortable these days. Feel free to skip the transition to tarps and go with what makes you enjoy the trip the most!

Hi Danny and welcome to the forum. My advice is to try a double walled tent and see if it is worth it to you. Maybe borrow one from a friend, or buy something that will be easy to sell on Gear Swap (the new Tarptent DW for example). After a few trips, and having the perspective of going floor-less with the Duomid, I think you will know. And don't feel bad if you go back to the Duomid. You wouldn't be the first person to do that.

From my experience what you can cope with (and still be comfortable) changes a lot through time. I think most people go from backpacking with way too much and shoddy equipment, to backpacking stupid light and spartan, to reaching some kind of middle ground between the two. For the time being, I find that I want to go light so that I can splurge on sleeping setups and good food. In the end, my pack is quite heavy compared to a lot of people on the forum. I think you will only know what areas you will follow strict UL protocol with and what areas you aren't willing to compromise on through experience because everyone is a little different. Considering my experience is limited compared to many on this forum, I wouldn't be at all surprised if I am packing very differently 10-15 years down the line (advances in technology aside). A lot of what backpacking light is to me is the ability to gain control over what you bring and don't bring. Having the trust and familiarity with yourself to make good gear choices that will allow us to best enjoy our time in the wilderness so that we can think about everything but the gear when we're out there. As I aspire towards that end it sure is nice to have the expert consultation the community at bpl.com provides.

edited for clarity's sake