LIST: SUL below freezing possible?

[Ken Thompson]

Remember SUL has no defined weight definition now that Ryan says so. Could be 50 pounds of stuff if that is the minimum required to carry you through in comfort and safety.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/sul-mindset-jordan.html#.U0YKA15d1nE

[Gary Pikovsky]

Yes, during white-outs it could be extremely difficult to orient. I wouldn't try to focus on SUL in conditions like this if I didn't have a good grasp of local terrain. People have, indeed, died up there in winter and summer, largely because if hypothermia.

If a total white out does happen, it doesn't last that long. If it does, there a number of massive boulders in which you could hide from the wind. With 0F sleeping gear/bivy and full clothing with a Nunatak parka and down pants, you can get by overnight even in -15F temps.

[Bob Gross]

If a total white out does happen, it doesn't last that long… except when it does last a long time. If it does, there is a number of massive boulders in which you could hide from the wind… except in the areas where there are no boulders. The Alpine Garden Trail comes to mind.

Anecdote: On the first time I climbed Mount Washington, I got an early start, got to the summit, shot a photo, and started down immediately. I reached timberline as the storm was hitting, so I reached the bottom safely and drove home. There was a stranger who had started from the bottom about an hour later than I had, so he got up near the summit and got pinned down out in the open when the storm hit. He was lucky enough to call 911 and reach the emergency dispatcher, so a rescue was called despite the terrible conditions. The rescue snow cat came up the road and found the stranger still pinned down, so they scooped him up and got him to the hospital.

Now, I'm guessing here, but if the storm hit before his call, and then the storm was still blowing after rescue got there, it must have been 2-4 hours minimum. Oh, well, what's a little frostbite?

–B.G.–

[Jake D]

agree Bob.. the entire north face going down to Lake of the clouds is all low rocks and gets hammered with wind.

He ignored my question of an actual plan with bailout plan so it seems like a lot of talk with out any action. it won't happen this year as it's turning into slush and probably monorail season soon.

I honestly tell people that the Presi's are better as a day hike. any time of year. Unless you're going to spend $$ for huts then it is much easier to do a day hike than overnight. There is just nowhere to stay up there and the extra weight of gear slows you down.

[Gary Pikovsky]

Jake,

I'm sorry, but I don't think I ignored your question. My main point was – in a whiteout, you're in a bad situation, wether or not you're SUL. With the stuff I'm taking you can easily spend a night up there if you are out of the wind. If you are not SUL and don't get out of the wind, you're in the same bad situation b/se no simple tent can tolerate such wind speeds. In any situation you need to camp in a protected area or below treeline and know the conditions and the area very well before spending the night.

I personally spent a few night up on Washington during winter storms. Wasn't very smart, but it is what it is.

[Jake D]

I asked what your plan was. Where are you going to, from, staying?

i just skipped carrying much of anything and did Presi in a day and Pemi in a day during the summer ;)

[Gary Pikovsky]

@Jake – Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah, President in a day is great in the summer, esp in sunny weather. I've done a winter Presi traverse in one day with some friends. That was probably the hardest and the most taxing thing I've ever done. We did it in 14 hours and my feet were bloody from the plastic boots. Couldn't walk for a day after… That was with about 25lbs. Ever since I wanted to go and do Presies in SUL fashion. Much less taxing on your feet.

This time the plan is to go from Pinkham to a camp by Jefferson and then go back. Going for two days.

[Walter Carrington]

Here's a very useful list of escape routes for a presidential traverse. Keep in mind that people have been trapped while knowing the exact bearing to follow to get below treeline because the wind was too strong to allow travel in that direction.
http://www.chauvinguides.com/presitraverse/presiescapes.pdf

[Bob Gross]

"wind was too strong"

You know the wind is too strong when you can't even get up to crawl.

Been there, done that.

–B.G.–

[Gary Pikovsky]

So any SUL gear tips for winter and shoulder season Presies?

[Jake D]

if you say so. i don't like being cold so it all sounds bad to me. i stick with day hike/snowshoes in the winter.

looks like Sphinx Col would be your best bet for a campsite.
http://www.chauvinguides.com/presitraverse/presicampguide.htm

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