1 oz, Durable* Cook kit

[Dan Yeruski]

Jeremy, just had a thought to reduce the grams. Use aluminum for the pot lid and reduce the size of the esbit tray.

[Jeremy Rardin]

That is great! remember seeing that stove but I don't remember now why I didn't go with it. I think I overlooked because it wouldn't have secured the pot I was using at the time because it wasn't flat bottom.

But this gives double the amount of water! If you replace the lid with foil then you could add a foil windscreen and be good to go :)

How much does the pot alone weigh?

EDIT: I remember now why I didn't try that combination; Zelph lists the flat bottom foster pot weighing 27 grams by itself: http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/foster-2-cup-flat-bottom.php

I still carry my 1 oz system, but I am backing away from it as I mostly only take trips in groups anyways haha.

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Sheesh this looks good Dan

[Dan Yeruski]

Jeremy, this stove design is new, designed it Friday based on some concerns I've read in a few threads.

The pot in the photo is the kind you have and I've used aluminum foil as the lid. I reduced weight of the esbit tray and came up with 20 grams total weight for pot and one piece stove. This design is in staying with SUL concepts. The one piece stove is a "thing" I've had for many years in my DIY tinkering. The keep it super simple thing;)

These 2 items are the basis of the kit. Now I can add a SS windscreen that will fit inside the pot.

I have options, the 10 ounce capacity or the 16+ ounce.

For a party of 2, I give one kit to my partner and share the experience ;)

Edited to add: Jeremy, the aluminum bottom, 2 cup flat foster pot has never been listed on my site.

[Jeremy Rardin]

Oh I see the difference in the stove now – I was confusing it with the starlyte stove. I didn't realize that you were zelph! haha

Edited to add: how much does the aluminum bottom 2 cup foster pot weigh? And are they for sale? :) I was confusing it with the foster pot at this link: http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/foster-2-cup-flat-bottom.php

[Dan Yeruski]

Pot only weighs 17 grams. I don't have any for sale, never did. Never got that far into SUL kits. John Abbela had something interesting to say about SUL. I'll have to get the quotes together side by side for you to read and then we can talk about SUL. In your recent thread you say you still carry the 1oz kit but I get the impression that you are farther away now from the SUL way of thinking when it comes to cook kits.

[Jeremy Rardin]

I am farther away from SUL in my packing list in general because I spend less time on the trail that I used to and I also spend less time/money on gear. I still use my 1 oz cook kit when I carry 7 or 8 lb pack because I found that it is all I need. I add a small corner of a rag to wipe off the esbit if I use a tab instead of alcohol. It isn't that I have found that setup unreliable or unsuitable. If that foster pot was available I would definitely purchase one haha.

edited to add: SUL isn't for everyone and to a degree it isn't really for me entirely. But I like the SUL forum best because those who are involved take everything into consideration – which I appreciate. I don't find it worth it to sleep on the ground with half a sleeping pad or push the rating of my quilt because 7 oz more down means a lot more comfort.

Something I appreciate about SUL cook kits is they are also less expensive than spending a lot on gas stoves or canister stoves. I love using esbit because I can just add some tablets in a bag and go.

[Dan Yeruski]

Jeremy, let's take a look at some high point of what John A said:

Re: 1 oz, Durable* Cook kit on 02/26/2014 00:47:57 MST
(JohnAbela)
Quote (emphasis added by me)
3) I think playing around with these kinds of setups is fun and totally worth the time invested in the pursuit of learning SUL/XUL hiking. You learn what works and does not work for you. The awesome thing about backpacking is we all have options to use and go with different gear and use what works for us, eh!! I still have the pot and the stand somewhere, but they have never been used since I initially tested it.

4) It was just a little too little amount of water

6) If given the option of a 6 g stand that has parts that can be lost, vs an 8 gram wire mesh stand (say, one of these cut down in height) I will choose the 8 gram one. I want reliability in my gear
So, I choose to ditch the stand and the too-small-for-me cup and bounce up to a wire mesh stand and a slightly larger pot.

7) Tealight holder
If its to prevent esbit sludge, well, that I understand and that is all I ever used a teacandle holder for. (c) If it is for ground protection, sorry but that is just not enough. Even the all-too-typical .005" thick titanium that companies enjoy packaging these days as part of a 'complete kit' is not thick enough. I have almost started a few ground fires because of not having a thick enough ground protection when using esbit. I have found that one of the few things that really works is a square cut piece of carbon felt.

9) Umm, I guess what we really need to address here is "does a pot of this size, with this little amount of water, really justify even worrying about efficiency?" I mean lets just be honest here, a little 4g esbit table is about all a person would need to bring this amount of water to a temperature good enough for your tea/coffee and almost warm enough to be viable at a meal rehydration without it being too cold. Go with a 4g and a 4g broken in half, so you have 6g and you can (should??) be able to reach the 200(f)+ mark with this little amount of water (have you tested this yet Jeremy??) So, anyway, my vote just goes for doing away with the teacup and/or the BGET. If the goal is to have the lightest setup possible, carrying either/both of them make no sense as they are just not going to provide a viable amount of efficiency. Lets remember, the fastest way to get water to boil, and the hottest way to get esbit, is without any of these kind of things… just the straight esbit set underneath the pot. All these kind of things (BGET/TDGC/FF14) really are designed to do is give you a longer burning time, not to give you a faster boil time.

10) DS said: "I also have one of Zelph's pots. It's small. It can be easily duped using a Blue Diamond Almond can (the short pot doesn't need ridges, IMO)". Ditto and totally agree. I bought a few different size BDA containers when I was playing around trying with this same stuff.
13) Jeremy said: "I am thinking about putting 10 or so of these setups together and selling them for 40$ or so". Uggh, I think that is kinda priced over the top Jeremy. I think the average SUL/XUL hiker is just not going to put out that kind of money for this specific setup. $20 bucks, maybe… if shipping was included. Unfortunately, and yet the reality is, this is just too small of a niche market

(JohnAbela)
Re: Whats your SUL Cook Set-Up Grams/Milliliter % on 02/21/2015

Too many people thread-drifting in this thread… as usual.

uhh, so my setup is 44.14 grams, minus a mini-bic, which right now is 11 grams… but I have no flipping idea how much fuel is still in it… and the pot holds 400ml

I'll let you all play with the math from there, to do whatever it is all of you are wanting with this data.

---

Edited to say my "emphasis" underlines and red highlight did not show up…bummer!

These are the things I had highlighted:

I still have the pot and the stand somewhere, but they have never been used since I initially tested it.

. I want reliability in my gear
So, I choose to ditch the stand and the too-small-for-me cup and bounce up to a wire mesh stand and a slightly larger pot.

. I have found that one of the few things that really works is a square cut piece of carbon felt.

Unfortunately, and yet the reality is, this is just too small of a niche market

[Jeremy Rardin]

3. Agreed

4. To each their own. 8oz is all I need to reheat ramen or noodles – not enough water for most people which is definitely to each their own. If I had that aluminimum flat bottom then I would use that rather than this for sure! More water is definitely better than less.

6. It is funny when people say something can too easily be lost because they surely don't carry doubles of everything. If I lost one of the holders for the stands, tape would suffice. If I lost a stand, I could use just two. If I lost the whole thing I could use sticks or rocks. My goal WAS to see if I could get it to 28 grams, which was for fun. 2 grams wouldn't put me over the edge of SUL and surely wouldn't break my back lol.

7. The tealight is for dual purpose esbit or denatured alcohol. I have yet to have my tealight cup burn through after many many uses – and if it did I cook on a dirt patch not dried grass.

9. I have gotten a boil from 4 and 6 grams esbit.

13. $40 was 5$ difference of what it was for me to get all the materials because it was $15 alone for the stands. But you are right it was silly because it is a small niche and people have different paths to the same goal.

I was encouraged to see a few people say they put it together and that it worked for them!

[Dan Yeruski]

Jeremy, I agree with you on the amount of water needed for a meal. I don't do soup :-))) I freezer bag Mountain House and use 1 cup to rehydrate. I eat my meals, not drink them. One cup rehydrates Ramen to perfection and I use only 1/2 the seasoning packet per serving.

I did a special make for John and like you can see in his comment, it still sits on the shelf. Today he uses a 400ml pot. He changes as time goes along.

John is right about SUL being a special niche, same with esbit users…small quantity of people use it. Recent comments and old ones seen in threads indicate too many negatives when it's talked about. There are those that swear by it and that will be seen forever….the die hards. If someone wants to get into using esbit, it should be with the 4 gram tablets. Less odor and more economical weight wise.

Wood is my goto fuel. Alcohol is my back-up. Aluminum bottom pots do well in wood fires. Esbit is a play thing.

This rock and pie pan thing is a real belly laugh.

Back to what John said. Burning esbit full bore is the way to go that's why I reduced my esbit tray to a flat disc with small raised edge to contain liquefied esbit as it burns.

[Jeremy Rardin]

Haha I thought the rocks and pan was very funny!

I see what you mean about many speaking poorly of esbit — it seems so odd to me though because that was the first thing I got into when I started backpacking. My first stove ever was the esbit tri-wing! I bought it and a walmart pot, both which I still stand by! I bought a canister stove and thought "this is what all the fuss is about?, it is loud and heavy and why would i put gas in my pack??" To each their own! it is much quicker

I love the idea of just straight wood burning because its natural and pleasant. My only reason for sticking with esbit is that I hate washing the soot off of the pot. Esbit is a little less messy I think. I like denatured alcohol too, but I don't care for carrying the bottle and I am always conscious of whether it will spill or not.

I am an esbit man through and through as it stands!

[Ian]

With you being a business owner, I totally understand why you wouldn't want to invest your time and efforts into a 1 cup SUL kit due to the lack of demand.

I did find for myself last summer that there was a real cascading weight savings benefit when I only re hydrated meals that require a single cup of hot water as a single .5oz Esbit tablet or two .25oz Coghlan tablets would heat my morning coffee and my evening meal. Again, I get why this won't work for everyone.

But in keeping with the UL philosophy that got my base weight under 10lbs, and will eventually get it under 5, this is an area where I personally can remove dead weight from my pack.

[Ken Thompson]

A Jetboil MiniMo

[Dan Yeruski]

Esbit intrigued me as all stove related things do. I did a lot of testing of it. The more you burn, the more you learn (Yon)

One day I did some testing in the kitchen when my wife was out of the house. I have a bay window in the kitchen facing east. The bay window has a nice shelf that was my table for testing. After the water came to a boil, the pot removed, I blew out the remaining esbit. I was prepared to see the smoke and smell the fragrance. I was not prepared to see the actual forming of crystals on the surface of the melted esbit. It was an amazing sight to see. The sunlight coming in the window shone directly on the forming of crystals. I'm a science type of guy and this act of nature in front of my eyes was a joy to be seen. I posted a photo on my website and here at BPL to share my excitement. I used a tri wing esbit stove at the time. So here on this raised pedestal was a pile of crystals formed on a little hump of remaining esbit. Here on BPL was info in regards to MSDS sheets on esbit. When I looked at all the cooled crystals I thought of the storage of the remaining piece. Bob and others say the crystals help in relighting the remains for the next burn. This little mound of esbit with pointed crystals on it was stuck to the tri wing. People talk time and time again about BPA but never about Esbit crystals. David removes the lining from beer cans in order to sell bpa free pots. The concerns are real. Not many folks out there will tell you that the bpa in can liners is removed/leached out in the process of cooking in the can at the canning companies. One heating of water to 180 degrees removes the bpa if there is any. As far as I know, the Ball Manufacturing company no longer uses products containing BPA since the big "scare" Being concerned about the crystals led me to think of a way to minimize exposure to them. Burn the esbit in a small container that has a lid on it. Necessity is the mother of invention so they say ;) In a recent video I made shows how crysatls formed when I snuffed out the burning esbit. I watched the video many times to watch science in motion. I snuffed it out with a piece of carbon felt. The smoke from the esbit contains crystals and I could see them on the felt used to snuff and on the carbon felt table cloth around the burner. I did the tests in my well ventilated, freezing cold garage. Jeremy, someday, on a calm day, in the sunlight, do the experiment that I just related so you can see the crystals form. Every form of fuel we use has it's draw backs. Life is filled with options, it's exciting…

Edited to include video

[Dan Yeruski]

Couple photos of the crystals. I took the stove outside in the sun to get a good up close photo of the crystals. Scraped them off inside the house.

[Dan Yeruski]

Ian, your blue diamond can is a little heavy.

Blue Diamond can with pie tin lid 1.3oz/38grams

Jeremy's can with lid = 0.6oz 18 grams

[jimmer ultralight]

The Blue Diamond tin is at least $10 less , stronger, has a non stick coating in it
easier to clean ( no ridges) and has no bottom seam.

It also has an airtight lid.

Some folks will take a .6 oz weight penalty for those advantages (Maybe cut the extra webbing off their pack to make up for it).

I realize that does not line your pocket in the end, but hey, a Starlyte burner fits real nice under a BD tin, so their IS an upside for you,right?

[Ian]

Thanks for bringing that to my attention Dan. I didn't see where Jeremy posted that but my BDA can is 1.2pz without the lid. I assumed it was alumininum but just discovered that it is in fact steel.

[John S.]

Check out the Fritos bean dip can for an aluminum version.

[Dan Yeruski]

"
Thanks for bringing that to my attention Dan. I didn't see where Jeremy posted that but my BDA can is 1.2pz without the lid. I assumed it was alumininum but just discovered that it is in fact steel."

That info was for everyone.

It didn't take long for DS to suggest the "Duping" thing. and for the group to follow suit. Some might even go as far as to remove the ink off the diamond can with a rotary wheel brush, put ridgelines on it sell them. Even John Abela sugested "duping"

I quote DS

"I also have one of Zelph's pots. It's small. It can be easily duped using a Blue Diamond Almond can (the short pot doesn't need ridges, IMO)."

But as you found out the can is made of sheet steel and is heavier than Jeremy's

aluminum can.

Jeremy also stated that I included the little cans free with a purchase of a Foster's.

I created the Ridgeline series because the Heineken cans were no longer being manufactured and AT hikers wanted the lighter beer can pots that were popular then. Research and development was expensive to produce the lighter pots to also include a flat bottom for use with a multitude of stove designs.hehe and then came the "dupers" LOL

So the Blue Diamond cans wind up being steel, good to know for all of the readers out there.

A savior is here, and has said it in another thread…."The Bean Dip Can" hehe, it's made of aluminum, not sure if it has any ridges for strength…surely they are not like the one Jeremy has. The bean dip has an internal ring which will collect food if used for anything other than water. Even water under that ring may have a tendency to grow some little critters in warm temperatures. Be sure to wipe it dry under that lip.

[Dan Yeruski]

"The Blue Diamond tin is at least $10 less , stronger, has a non stick coating in it
easier to clean ( no ridges) and has no bottom seam.

It also has an airtight lid.

Some folks will take a .6 oz weight penalty for those advantages (Maybe cut the extra webbing off their pack to make up for it).

I realize that does not line your pocket in the end, but hey, a Starlyte burner fits real nice under a BD tin, so their IS an upside for you,right?"

The can Jeremy has in his kit has no seam on the bottom. He recognized the free can as a SUL addition to his kit and put together one that works for him. At the time, the free cans did not have a ridgeline. I put one on for Jeremy. Because the can is short, It's no problem at all to clean the internal line depression made by the ridge.

Your right about the justification of weight penalties. Folks will "MAKE" things right for their needs. See J. Abella ;)

Nobody is buying StarLytes to put under these cans, the SUL'ers are using esbit. Abella is doing the 4 grammers now that he's back into SUL. He burnes them full blast and I don't blame him. don't want no crystals left over :-))))))

The StarLyte Stove would be awesome to use as back-up….it weighs only 1/2oz. BPL saw the the value of the stove way back when they were a retailer and carried it in their inventories. Dan Durston saw the value of it and shared his use of it to creat his awesome compact kit. Trail Designs saw fit to use the burner section of it as an option for their kits. FourseasonSurvival.com has seen the benefit of it also.

Most everything you see me offer to the public came about by creating DIY projects on Whiteblaze.net as a contributing member in the DIY gear department. Those projects were shared with everyone interested in the world of DIY projects. At some point in time the members that are not "dupers" asked if I could make one for them. It just happens. It was not my intention to line my pockets, it was to provide a friendly service to friends. The change in my pockets I reinvest in products made by other "cottage vendors"

Why not sell Foster pots with aluminum bottoms….Because they don't meet my standards. There is a pull tab on the bottom and on the inside there is a little dimpled depression caused by the pull tab/ring attaching operation by the manufacture.

The bean dip can is the way to go. Enjoy the dip while you watch sports on tv and then make your SUL kits of the lightest variety. use the steel BlueDiamond for stronger pots. Have someone make a Titanium one just for the fun of it ;)

[Ian]

"Check out the Fritos bean dip can for an aluminum version."

Thanks John. I'll definitely check that out too for comparison.

"The bean dip has an internal ring which will collect food if used for anything other than water. Even water under that ring may have a tendency to grow some little critters in warm temperatures. Be sure to wipe it dry under that lip."

As does the BDA can. Someone mentioned earlier using a safety can opener to remove it. I don't have one of those but used a conventional can opener which did the trick. No rough edges on the inside or concern that I'll cut myself. I'll try to do the same with the bean dip can later.

And I see via email that there's a pot in the mail as of yesterday. Many thanks.

[Dan Yeruski]

"And I see via email that there's a pot in the mail as of yesterday. Many thanks."

Thank you!

I included a free gift for burning your esbit. Will help to contain the crystals ;-) Use it when you go car camping, it's on the heavy side.

[Dan Yeruski]

(IDBLOOM)
" I heat two cups of water, pour one cup into my oatmeal, and then use the rest for coffee, adding more water if necessary. If you drink freeze dried coffee then the process is fairly straight forward. I drink Turkish style (cowboy) coffee which requires bringing the water to a boil at least twice. Sometimes I can do this with .25oz of solid fuel (Esbit/Coghlans) but on a bad day it may take .5oz. "

Do you take the pot off the stove and then let it cool for X amount of min. and then put back on the stove? Do you blow out the esbit and re-light? What is your procedure?

[Ian]

Dan,

I stir the grounds in after it reaches a boil the first time. I'll remove it from the heat for about ten seconds while stirring. I'll return it to to a boil after 10 and let it boil again. It's ready to drink at this point.

The trick is to use a Turkish grind. The finer the better.

[Author]

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