Caldera Cone Awesomeness

[Delmar O’Donnell]

> The pot support on a "standard" Starlyte is 1" if that helps.

Is that 1" from the top of the stove, or 1" from the ground? I assume the former.

If the pot is too far from the stove, it's inefficient. What's the penalty for the pot being too close to the stove?

[Anonymous]

"That's a good thought, Tom. Maybe low air inflow means we need a lower distance between stove and pot?"

That's what I'm thinking.

"As for the adjustable pot supports, maybe people should just order a tall one, and then shove it into the ground when they need a shorter one–that's fairly adjustable, right?"

That would work, but over the long run would make a mess of your aluminum reflector sheet. But I guess you wouldn't need to do that after you determined the optimal length for your stove, probably at home. At that point, you could adjust the supports permanently or semi permanently by either bending them at a right angle or clipping them off with wire cutters. Problem solved without building a better mousetrap?

[Anonymous]

"It may have been in part down to using Spanish laundry cleaning fluid as fuel!"

Ughhh! That's sounds akin to using Sterno to make a Margarita.

Or Russian tank drivers drinking brake fluid when they can't get vodka. I'm told their results are suboptimal, too. ;0)

[Bob Gross]

"Problem solved without building a better mousetrap"

However, if we build the better mousetrap, the world will beat a pathway to our door.

–B.G.–

[Anonymous]

" What's the penalty for the pot being too close to the stove?"

Inefficient(incomplete) combustion.

[Bob Gross]

"Inefficient(incomplete) combustion."

That would result in poor fuel efficiency, slower boil times, and increased carbon monoxide.

It seems like it is easy enough to optimize the stove to pot distance for any given situation, and it shouldn't be too hard to shim that if necessary. I think that is what titanium stakes are used for.

–B.G.–

[Dale Wambaugh]

"1 to the top of the stove.

[Delmar O’Donnell]

Thanks Dale. Now off to make that integrated windscreen/pot support for my StarLyte.

Just for the sheer delight of knowing: How does one determine the ideal height above the stove? Repeated boilings at eighth inch increments?

[USA Duane Hall]

I'm hanging close to home this weekend, but still out in the garage taking photos of some of my old stoves. Got out my Modified Starlyte and Starlyte stoves, carbon felt simmer ring (freebies from GGG 6) and two Caldera Cone setups for my Evernew .6L pot and the REI .9L pot, both ti pots. Results for the .6L mirrored results from last Spring when I was car camping and just did a single test run. The .6L pot and TD 12-10 stove brought to a boil 12 oz. of 50F water at around 5:40, with 20cc of green denatured alcohol to start. The modified Starlyte had results at about 6:40-7:00 minutes, but used 5cc less of fuel. I'm going to retest on Sunday as I was very surprised at the tiny bit of fuel used by each stove. I recovered out of the 20cc, 7.5cc for the 12-10 stove and 12.5cc for the modified Starlyte, so that's why I want to retest at least the modified Starlyte, as to determine fuel consumption of the Starlyte, I had to weight it at what it would have started with, with 20cc of fuel as I did not weigh it at the start and there is no way to recover un-used fuel measure. I tried the REI .9L pot with 12oz. of water and it took around 7:00 minutes, so the .6L pot is faster. Air temps were in the 40's, so a warm day, tested on my work bench in the garage. I happened to stumble over findings that these stoves are more efficient when more fuel than is expected to be used is added at the start.
Flame on.
Duane
PS: The cone for the .6L pot is the same height as for the .9L pot. Since the .6L pot is shorter, that puts it further away from the flame. Not sure why this works.

[Franco Darioli]

"Just for the sheer delight of knowing: How does one determine the ideal height above the stove?'
my method has caused some merriment with the more scientific minded guys but works for me…
It really is the same as finding the focus point of a magnifying glass, something I learned aged 6 or 7 wanting to cremate ants (sorry)
I bring a pot to boil then I hold the pot over the flame of the intended burner and move it up and down.
As you do that you will see the boil getting stronger or weaker.

[USA Duane Hall]

I forgot to mention, knew there was something. For the modified Starlyte, I placed some washers under it to get the top of the burner to the same height as the 12-10 stove.
For the regular Starlyte, I wanted to test the simmering length when using the carbon felt round I was given. I only wanted to see how long it would run. With only the Caldera Cone around the stove acting as a windscreen, it simmered with no pot over it for 30 minutes, getting weaker by that time a little and petering out at about 32 minutes or so.
Duane

[Jon Leibowitz]

So I just tested my setup again. 1/2 oz fizzled out at about 11 minutes and the water hit 185 degrees. It was hot, but far from boiling.

The setup I'm using is a tri-ti sidewinder with a Toaks 900. The sidewinder is made specifically for this pot, so I never considering having to adjust the height. I just figured Trail Designs designed it to sit at the correct height when using the starlyte that comes with this kit. Maybe I'm wrong.

Is it possible the fuel I'm using is not efficient? I'm using Klean Strip Denatured Alcohol. I get it at the hardware store. My elevation is 7000 feet.

No idea how people are getting boiling times in 6-8 minutes with the starlyte.

Any ideas?

[Bob Gross]

Some alcohol stoves are quite sensitive to the surface temperature where they sit. Often they can get a lot hotter and heat the internal alcohol better if they are insulated from a cold floor or slab of ice. It doesn't take very much insulation to do it. Too much thickness in the insulation, and you will be tinkering with the stove to pot distance. For that matter, it doesn't hurt to store your alcohol container at body temperature before you fill the stove, just to give it a warmer start.

–B.G.–

[Ken Larson]

Did you have the stakes in the tri-ti sidewinder?

[Jon Leibowitz]

Yes. I have the stakes. But they are described as "for wood burning mode" on the website no? I never considered using them for alcohol burning.

[Ken Larson]

You can run the stove with the pot all the way down on the cone, but that chokes it out a good bit and doesn't allow the flame front needed to fully burn the off gasses. Your next run, you need to see what happens with the pot propped up on stakes through the lower holes.

[Jon Leibowitz]

Alright. I'll try the stakes…

…and will begrudgingly bring them on my next trip if I have to!

Will report back soon.

[Jennifer Mitol]

For the 12-10 you DO need the stakes in the lower set of holes; for wood they go in the top. But the starlyte is shorter – thus you don't need the stakes and should be able to set the pot right in the cone.

Is the Toaks pot tall n skinny or short n wide?

Secondly…what conditions are you not getting boiling water? On your stovetop at home? In the snow in your backyard? Details please…

[Jon Leibowitz]

I figured you didn't need the stakes with the starlyte…..regardless, I let a friend borrow mine and I'll test it soon.

The Toaks pot is nearly identical to the Evernew 900. It's short and fat.

I'm testing this in my (well ventilated) home. On the dining room table, with tap water from the sink. Ambient temperature in my house in 65. The table is wood and not cold.

[Jennifer Mitol]

Wow then I don't know. I use the same alcohol, I have the .9 and the .6L evernew set ups and I use a modified starlyte…it works like a dream in both of them. In the morning I put the water in for coffee (400mL?) and don't even measure the alky – just a little squirt to top off whatever was left from last night and I still end up snuffing the flame out once my water is boiling. I use WAY less alcohol this way than with the 12-10.

Of course, I'm not sure I have ever used the starlyte with the 900…I've been using the 600 for quite a while now.

I honestly don't know what's going on with your set up…maybe either of the Dans (Durston or Zelph himself…) has something to offer……

[Ken Thompson]

Two questions.

Which Starlyte are you using?

You are using a lid aren't you?

[Jon Leibowitz]

Modified starlyte….made for Caldera Cones.

Of course I'm using a lid :)

[Ken Thompson]

Being as high as you are maybe an unmodified Starlyte would be better?

[Jon Leibowitz]

Look, I know Colorado legalized marijuana but we are not all stoners!! :D

[S Long]

FWIW, Jon, I never did get a Starlyte to work right for my setup. I started with a modified version, then took the ring off to make it like a regular version. I have no idea how people are boiling two cups on so little fuel. I did a few tests with two different pots and found that the 12-10 is more efficient. Too bad. I really like the design of the Starlyte. It would have been nice if I could have made it work for me. Background info: I am at ~4000' elevation and my tests were done in my house (`70 degrees F. ambient air temp. and cold tap water). I was using the ti cone made for a Foster's ridgeline pot with both a regular Fosters pot and a flat bottom Fosters pot. The most efficient and fastest setup I used was the 12-10 and flat bottom pot, but I STILL couldn't get a boil with anything less than 25mL. of Heet methyl alcohol. Maybe I need a different pot and cone setup?

[Author]

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