Chasing breathability an exercise in futility?

I've been searching for the perfect rain jacket for a few years. It's funny, after all the research and buying a few different garments, I'm still using the ultra breathable and in incredibly waterproof froggtoggs driducks. They often rip, but I can buy 7 pairs for the price of most rain jackets and in the field, duct tape does the trick.

I'm currently leaning towards the OR Helium II and plan on taking advantage of OR's infinite guarantee if the pertex doesn't hold up. I've also looked at Luke's (paclite) and ZPacks (cuben event) offerings as options, both look great but don't have substantial warranties, which is critical with expensive rain gear.

"I'm still using the ultra breathable and in incredibly waterproof froggtoggs driducks."

I need to cough up the ~$20 and buy one to see how well it would work for me. It seems like the polyurethane coating of the jacket I currently own adds to the clamminess so getting rid of that variable would be a plus.

So worth the investment. There is nothing close to its breathability or waterproofness that I have worn. It is Fragile though. If you are going out for more than a few days, bring duct tape. Mine always rips under the shoulder straps, but only on extended trips where I'm hiking for hours (see, all day) with the jacket on.

Currently 18 dollars plus free shipping on amazon if you are a prime member. Hard to complain.

"I currently own a 14oz Mountain Hardwear jacket rain shell which is fairly comparable to the Marmot Precip in terms of features including pit zips. The material is marketed as Dri-Q (not elite) which appears to be to be eVent possibly. I’ve been underwhelmed with its breathability (complete lack thereof). "

If it's not Elite, it isn't AP and thus not eVent-like (this info comes from a MHW-doc.)

Then, I can't recommend Paclite as it is prone to condension build-up (even manufacturers know that.

For those looking at the OR Helium II, OR will normally ad this year the Helium HD, a Helium II with e.g. vents.

I have to say, I was surprised with how much I like the original OR Helium. I bought it because it was so light, but was worried because of how low the listed breathability was compared to the event jacket it'd be replacing.

However, I took it out on a 40* day of constant, mid-heavy rain on a 5mi trail with 3000+ elevation gain with 40mph wind gusts and I was extremely comfortable. The hood isn't the best fit, but I had a OR convertible cap on under the hood so the rain/wind wasnt much of an issue.

I'm very warm bodied and put out a lot of back sweat when hiking and sleep very warm but I didn't feel stifled in the Helium.

I can't attest to the durability of the coating, but OR stands behind their products. I could always just take it down to their headquarters here in Seattle if I have a problem.

I'm a big fan of the O2 Rainshield jacket (lightweight, breathable, but fragile, much like the Frogg Toggs–reviews I read suggested that the O2 was more durable). I've used this jacket on 2 thru-hikes, and one jacket was good each time for an entire thru. I wouldn't use it anywhere that you'll be doing much bushwhacking, but for normal backpacking, it's great.

Gotta agree with Jon. Raingear is the one item that has most consistently failed me over the last 20 years and I have a hard time getting excited about spending substantial amounts of money on it. Driducks are as light and as breathable as anything out there, and when they ultimately die, you don't feel like a schmuck for having dropped a couple hundred on them. I usually get at least 3 years out of mine. I just put 5 or 6 holes in my current pair during a river trip with a lot of bushwacking, but they patch easily with tape or aqua seal and should be good as new.

The pants will split at the drop of a hat, but can be made into a serviceable, but not particularly stylish, rain skirt.

For a little more weight (10 oz) and a little more money, the black frogg togg suits sold for bikers are considerably more durable.

No more delaminations, peeling seam tape, or failing DWR for me. As far as I'm concerned, frogg toggs are one of the great secrets of UL backpacking, kind of like when you first realize that you can pull a one liter water bottle out of the recycling bin and it will last you for years. Some of the best UL discoveries are free, or nearly so.

"I’m left wondering though if Paclite’s performance will be noticeably improved over my current jacket or if I’ll end up with another dud."

Likely not. I found Paclite to be reasonably waterproof, but the breathability is only average (whatever that is). If you have pit zips, that will help. I have also found that Paclite is relatively fragile and can develop pinholes easily which obviously negatively affects the waterproofing.

I have used the Stoic Vaporshell and it is remarkably breathable (with eVent) but the jacket is heavy and the fabric does not like to retain DWR. Better winter / snow fabric.

Right now I am using Gore Activeshell and I find it as breathable as eVent (subjectively) but as a 3L fabric – quite durable. Reasonably light as a fabric as well. I have been impressed.

Thanks everyone for the replies. After reading through the responses, I think Dri Ducks or O2 is a better fit for me at this time than Paclite or other options. If it doesn't work out, meh, I'm out $20 and back to the drawing board.

I have a Golite Tumalo and have pretty much stopped using it except for around the 25-45F range because of breathability even thought it has pit zips and mesh pockets. Instead I switched to using an umbrella, wind shirt and trash bag rain skirt for above 45F and an XXL DriDucks jacket to go over my down jacket and full zip rain pants for below 25F. I wish I could use an OR Helium II but they are too short in the arms and body according to OR. I probably could use the DriDucks instead of the wind shirt and use the umbrella less also. I did find that they are making the DriDucks XXL a bit shorter than they used to. You can also order DriDucks directly from them for $20 shipped USPS Priority mail.

Pit zips are useless in my experience, although some people swear by them. If it's not raining, unzip front or take off jacket to get a useful amount of ventilation.

Thin baselayer and jacket – if you get sweaty inside which is sometimes unavoidable, it will dry out quickly

I like your $20 logic

Jerry, I've never owned a jacket with pit zips so please forgive me if this question is ignorant. Isn't the idea of pit zips that you can have them open while it's actually raining (unlike a front zip depending on the angle of rain)?
This is a genuine question as I'm considering getting a new waterproof and wondering if the weight of pit zips is worth it.

Ian, I think you're right on in your thoughts. Avoid wearing your WPB coat at all costs. If you can, use DriDucks (I don't trust them, small holes are one thing, huge tears another). If not, get a Goretex job and be done with it.

I've experimented with non-breathable rain coats (sil and urethene) on numerous occasions, and it always highlights the impressive extent to which even PU does breath. This performance difference makes Goretex worth it in my book.

Conventional pitzips don't vent enough in any conditions to be worth the weight and complication. Side zips which go all the way to the hem are an exception to this.

How much do you wear underneath the rain jacket

In mild temps it should be the thinnest long sleeve lauer you can if ur overheating

The or helium is often priced right and light …. But it aint a paragon of breathability

In sustained rain chasing breathability is like a dog chasing its own tail … Youll get damp one way or another and the jacket will wet out eventually

;)

This is just my opinion. You can try different ideas you read about and use those that work for you:

I've had jackets with pit zips. Used them in the rain. Didn't make much difference.

Worst sweating is on shoulders and back of head and neck. Pit zips don't really make much difference there. Unzipping front of jacket and opening it up helps some.

Pit zips open up a slit, but the fabric tends to drape down and close it up. The cross sectional area of vent is small. And there's no "chimney effect".

Unzipping front creates a flow of ventilation from below, get's heated by body, flows up and out.

But the shoulders and back of head/neck still have jacket against them.

Taking off jacket or at least lowering hood helps, but if it's raining, you'll get wetter.

"Taking off jacket or at least lowering hood helps, but if it's raining, you'll get wetter."

And a waterproof had or cap ?

I've used waterproof caps – Seattle Sombrero – wind blows rain underneath, not very useful

I think a lot of us have been through a lot of the options for a reason: there is no great option. I backpack in the SE US more than anywhere else, so breathability is high on list of features for me; its almost always humid.

Dri ducks have worked as well as anything I have tried, but they are just a step up from a poncho as far as fit goes and, of course, are susceptible to holes and tears. They are pretty breathable though, so its what I usually have 3 seasons.

I have tried a Rab pertex sheild + jacket. It is nice and light when I'm not wearing it; the face fabric is nice; it hasn't delaminated (yet). But the breathability doesn't feel very good.

I was excited by the Zpacks cuben eVent jacket until I saw Richard's test results on breathability for the material.

I going to try once motre to replace my dri ducks. I just picked up a light eVent jacket (Rab Demand). If that doesn't work, I will probably be a lifetime dri ducks devotee.

"The or helium is often priced right and light …. But it aint a paragon of breathability"

It also isn't particularly waterproof in driving rain. I found that its hydrostatic head was lacking.

Here's what I've used. I'm reasonably happy with the breathability of these.

45F and above: DriDucks

20-45F: eVent (a Packa)
Or sometimes DriDucks. I would use them for this temp range also, but I like something more durable when it's colder.

below 20F: cotton canvas (old Swedish army anorak)

I suspect that one reason these work acceptably for me is that they're all sized larger than what you would for a typical rain jacket. This allows them to trap a bubble of air which absorbs the moisture, and then that air can be vented with zippers and pulling the fabric to pump air in and out. The Packa also has huge pit zips. I'm still debating about whether I'd prefer to just wear the Packa as a jacket under my pack rather than over tha pack like a poncho.

Andy, do you find that the cotton canvas anorak is more breathable than a wind shirt or soft shell?
I've wanted a canvas anorak for a while now, I think they are totally badass, but I would really have no use for it here and the supply on the Swedish surplus ones has ran out.

Ian,

I sweat heavily. I long ago gave up staying dry. I just try to stay warm.

I'm with Daryl, I gave up on breathable rain shells as well. I just carry a light mid layer that will keep me warm while wet after everything has wetted out. Wool is the warmest for using non breathable shells.

I got a used, 1st generation Zpacks WPB jacket and I like it quite a lot. I have used it for about a year and a half now, and have not had any problems with it at all. I've even slept in it on a few occasions and it was fine. But I only use it when it rains moderate to heavy or emergency layer for colder than expected night temps, which means it only gets occasional use. For light rain I wear my windbreaker or just deal with getting a bit wet (especially if it's just mist/drizzle), and if it is really heavy rain I will sometimes wait it out under a big pine or rock overhang.

My plan is to run it into the ground and then replace it with a Silnylon poncho, because from my experiences for many years with those thick, heavy, bomb-proof, water-tight plastic ponchos I used to use is that I never got sweaty under them because of the air that flows around from below/sides of it. Plus, can also double as a ground cover, pack cover, or extension to your tarp/tent.

I agree that WPB are just too expensive and too problematic, but I could not resist getting a used one at a good price–not to mention the amazing low weight of Zpacks jackets. For many years I used simple plastic ponchos and had very few issues with them. Nothing against my rain jacket, and as I said it has been great so far. I just know that eventually I will need to replace it, and I have avoided getting sweaty with it because I have been consciously choosing to wear it only when I need to and/or for brief intervals.

I also own a Marmot Precip I got super cheap from a clearance sale that I now use as my urban/day hike rain jacket, and it's a pretty good jacket. After about 15-20min in heavy rain it will start to soak through some, but this is rare for urban/day hike use. These are the only two WPB jackets I have ever owned, and as much as I like them, I have to admit that I prefer ponchos. More versatile, cheaper, and less chance of sweat build up than a rain jacket. And with the newer versions of Silnylon, the weight I am guessing would be around the same or only slightly more than the lightest WPB jackets.