URsack in the Grand Canyon

For what it's worth, when I ordered my GrubPack on-line it showed up at my door within 3-4 days. I'm a self-admitted cheapskate so I went for the lower price. I had very good luck with my order and the bag is a well made piece of gear. I've done two multi-day trips with it.

LB

seems like there are opinions oh plenty. ilove gear discussions. any backpacker has favorite gear that they will defend till the end of time. even if its 20 years old…"i can get another trip out of it" heard that before?

personal convictions is what makes people interesting.

I've recently become a big big fan of outsak, and i read a lot of blogs. keeps the gears turning about hiking while I'm stuck in the office. I'm sure many can relate.

This way I also live vicariuosly through others adventures and mishaps.

i read this yesterday, http://www.backpacker.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=832107219;t=9991126140

Outsak seems to be making a splash in the backpacking world. the outsak served me well, as I see it has served others equally as well.

>>The Grub pak isn't available in stores. Only online. Good Luck with that…I just like to see a retailer decide its a worthy piece of gear…<<

Yeah, I agree. If it's not available at a retail store, it's probably not worth purchasing.

Oh wait…I can think of dozens of cottage industry manufacturers that fit this description, whose gear I love.

Never mind.

This thread contains some other good info.

Old thread, but whatever (unless thats bad forum etiquette?).
Anyways, I just ordered a GrubPack today. There was an issue on my end of the order (my phone number in paypal was out of date). Jeff from GrubPack emailed me about it, and gave a timeframe to call and verify my number for security reasons. I called, he answered, and we got things straightened up right away. He said my order would be in the mail tomorrow and that I should get it within a few days! We chatted for a few minutes about using the pack and the inherent havoc rodents and ravens play on hikers' food. Jeff was friendly, helpful, and seemed on top of things.

So far, really good experience with my order. There's my two cents for GrubPack.

11-28 UPDATE: I received my GrubPack in the mail in a quite timely fashion. Jeff's been great to deal with, and I look forward to using the product.

I've had a Grubpack for about a year and a half. I've used it in Utah, Nevada and Arizona. I bought it from their website and so did my friends. We all had good service and the bags work great. There's not much that can go wrong with them, they're rather simple.

I have used Ratsacks in the past, but for a recent 11 day GC trip I went with 2 Ursacks. They are lighter than Ratsacks, and easier to pack with food, as well as pack into my pack.

By loosely packing 5 or 6 days into each Ursack I had a relatively floppy bundles that settled easily and nest into my pack.

For evening security I leaned them against a boulder, folded or rolled the tops (after tying), and place a large rock on the top. Previous campers had created this rock cache that saved me the trouble of finding a couple of good sized rocks. A rocked top is mouse-proof, and a heavy enough rock slows down the ringtails.

No packing and unpacking. No extra stuff sacks for the food. No holes, no problems.

I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but I got back from a week-long camping/day hiking trip to the Grand Canyon just tonight. I was not backpacking, just day hiking, but I traveled to G.C. without a car and had no hard-sided container for my food. I camped in Mather Campground where there were no ammunition boxes for food storage. On a ranger's (poor) advice I kept all of my food in my tent (a backpacking tent), but on the third day a squirrel tore a hole in the mesh part of my tent, entered, ate a hole in the bottom of my food stuff sack, and tore holes in the two plastic bags in which I had walnuts and crackers. Then he left (in a hurry, I think, when I happened to walk back into camp) via a second hole that he made in a different part of my mesh tent netting. (The second hole was at the apex of the tent, but there was no damage to the sides of the tent. He must have taken a panicked, flying leap upward to escape…)

I temporarily patched the holes in the mesh with some sticky tape I had for emergency air mattress repairs. I couldn't carry all of my food with me when I left my tent, so I put my least odorous food (freeze-dried dinners and instant oatmeal) inside a canvas duffel bag inside my tent, and I placed the rest of my food (gorp, cheese, nuts, dried fruit, M&Ms, etc.) inside my daypack which I kept with me. I then left the tent and went to the General Store to see what kind of a solution I could find (short of buying a ratsack for $49 or a cooler for the same amount). I found a large heavy plastic drink jug with a plastic screw-on top – it said "Gatorade" on the side – for $12 and bought it. I also bought some duct tape.

Back at the campsite I found that the squirrel had reentered my tent and chewed two small holes in my canvas duffel, but he hadn't gotten all the way into it, and I had not lost any more food. I didn't, however, want either my tent or my duffel bag totally destroyed… so I took the food from the duffel bag and stuffed it all in the plastic drink jug, screwed the cap on, and put a huge rock on top of it. (The rock was to deter ravens. Ravens were systematically tearing up campsites all around me whenever anyone had left any food out.) I could not get ALL of my food in the drink jug and continued to carry half of it around with me in my day pack for the remaining four days that I was camped at Mather.

My jug-plus-heavy rock remained undisturbed for the duration, and the squirrel didn't go back into my tent for another three days. I left no food in my tent at all now. But on the day before I left G.C. – the sixth day after my arrival and the third day after I'd bought the jug – the squirrel went back into my tent and chewed a hole in the plastic bag in which I had clothespins and a clothesline. I have no explanation for this other than the squirrel's prior habituation to my tent.

My total losses were some walnuts, some crackers, a couple of little holes in my duffel bag, and two larger holes in the mesh of my tent…

Ravens never bothered my tent. I concluded that ravens find food by sight, while squirrels find it by smell.

I don't know if a rat pack would have been good enough to keep that squirrel out. If I return to the Grand Canyon I will use something like that drink jug, or even a bear barrel. And I will scrupulously keep all food out of my tent.

P.S. In rereading what I posted below, I see that I neglected to specify what I DID with the jug-plus-rock… I put it where the ravens could see it, under my picnic table, but not in my tent.

FWIW, when my wife and I went backpacking in the Grand Canyon last November (after reading this thread) we kept our food in an Opsack, inside an Ursack Minor (the rodent-resistant one, not the original bear-resistant version). We spent one night each at Hermit and Monument. In each case we arrived fairly early, made camp, and went exploring for a couple of hours. The Opsack/Ursack combination worked great; nothing messed with it. Third night was at Indian Garden where we used the ammo cans.

I’ve heard or seem images of almost every deterrent out there getting breached by dedicated critters, and somewhere someone suggested cookie tins as a better storage device for the Grand Canyon.  I tend to eat a lot, and for the length of my trip needed a 3.5 gallon popcorn tin.  Looks like it should work great- it’s about the same size as a BV500, which I have but hate to lug around if I don’t need to.  What I was unable to locate pretty much anywhere on the web was the weight of the darn things.  Well, I finally have it in hand and my 3.5 gallon unit weighs 23.55 oz.  Not light, but it shaves a pound off the BV500, and weighted with a rock I can’t imagine any canyon critter getting it open or running off with it.

DavidM,

That would be me – the one always suggesting popcorn or cookie tins for rodent and raven protection in GCNP.

Thanks for posting the weight – good to memorialize that for others’ future reference.

You can buy them and eat the cookies or usually find them at Goodwill thrift stores for $1.

I’ve heard back from some folks who had perfect success with them.  I’ve never heard from anyone who had them fail in GCNP (obviously, they’re not bear proof elsewhere).

It’s always worth a look in the steel-can bin at the recycling center.

For a solo overnight or 2-night trip, Home Depot sells empty 1-gallon paint cans for $5.50 but the weight to volume isn’t nearly as good on those.  They are sturdier than the cookie tins but aren’t agency-approved for bears and I wouldn’t trust them completely, but using 9 inches of a 1×2 to bang the lid on with a rock and given a good outside rinse, they wouldn’t suggest food to a non-habituated bear.

What are the dimensions of these cookie/popcorn tins?  (Height x Diameter)

I have spent many nights in the Canyon with a critter Ursack.  The bad guys have bothered others with regular sacks, but never mine.  Maybe that is the clue, camp next to someone without protection!

Since I am headed to the Canyon in 3 days, has anyone had dyneema chewed thru?  I have heard it is pretty good with varmints, but never a report from the 4 legged experts in the GC.  To me, the idea that dynema works for this sounds ridiculous, but i thought i would ask people who know.

And by the way, the Plague, carried by rodents, has killed people in the canyon, including a ranger a few years back.  Dave’s cans look pretty good with that in mind.

thanks

Greg:
Diameter: 9-11”

Height: 10-14”.

just saw one in Walmart. 9”D at the base, 10”D at the top, 9” height. $10 with 24 oz of popcorn, total weight 41 ounces. So container weight of 17 oz minus internal dividers so about 15-16 ounce container weight for almost 3 gallons of volume.

David – Thanks.

Arthur –

From the Ursack FAQ,regarding the Major and the Minor, respectively –

“In almost every case, a marmot or raccoon won’t tear a hole (more than 1/4″) … ”

“Sometimes mice can chew very small holes …”

I have had critters chew into both Majors and Minors, making 1″ holes and helping themselves to the contents. Setting the Ursack on the ground is the worst.  Hanging helps.  Initially a believer, but now I’ll be carrying a popcorn can.

YMMV

Another approach is just buy the tub of popcorn, throw it in your pack, and hike until you run out of popcorn.

“Since I am headed to the Canyon in 3 days”

Arthur, I’m hoping to pop over to GCNP Sunday or Monday if I wrap up enough of my toxic-waste-site work in Vegas by then.  Maybe a quick Rim-River-Rim but probably just tag Indian Gardens and back.

David, It would be fun to meet up, but I will be over at Clear Creek. A bit of a day hike for you!

Home Depot now sells a rim/lid for 5 gal. buckets. The inside of the 5 gal rim is threaded for the screw-in lid. Bang on the rim and voila! A screw in lidded 5 gal. bucket No idea what one weighs, mine is currently filled w/ almost 5 gallons of oil based stain.

Also: I thought the plague was spread by Fleas. The fleas are carried around and infected by the rats. Maybe the rats are the reservoir? Like field mice and ticks and lyme? Anyway isn’t the trick to avoid the fleas?

Yup. Plague is through fleas. Hanta can be from droppings. We got a call from Yosemite about 3 deaths in people who stated in Curry Village, including one from the same cabin we stayed in.

Report:  4 nights in the GC.  Mice running over our feet and all over camp while we ate dinner in the dark.  Ursack performed well.  No odor bags, just zips inside. Maybe the Ursack worked, or maybe I was lucky.  if there was a tree, it hung a few feet off the ground.  No trees, it sat next to my feet while cowboy camping.  Without a larger trial, who knows if it was real or luck.

A few years back I hiked the Tonto from the S Bass to New Hance plus a side trip to Clear Creek.  9 days.  Had 6 days in my bearikade weekender, and 3 in an Ursack.  I had mice in camp every night and the Ursack was totally sufficient to keep them out of my food.

Why a bear cannister when it is not required?  The bear cannister provides bullet-proof food storage and always a place to sit.  I now always carry a bear can.  Two if going >1 week unsupported where they are required.  And one plus Ursack where they are not.  No Ursack failures.  Not sure how they fare with bears, but in areas with “critters” racoon size and smaller, never an issue.

There are way too many mice in this world. We need more predators.

I receive a popcorn tin from a vendor every year, have to save it this time. I wonder how well it will fit in my pack? And a great excuse to buy those Danish cookies, which I definitely do not need. Probably good calorie to weight ratio there.

No message. (Had responded to something WAY up thread).