Caldera Cone 12-10 and StarLyte Simmer Device

Caldera Cone 12-10 and Starlyte Simmer on YouTube

Thanks greg23 for that link :-)

Alright experts, what's not to like about my simmer device?

Not at all an expert…as a matter of fact I know less than the average person on this forum about stoves.

So…

Does the simmer device slow down the use of fuel? For example, if I can get 12 minutes out of a half an ounce in the modified starlyte, would the simmer device extend that a bit? Or if I wanted to use it to simmer would I need to add a lot more alcohol in order to get the simmer to, well, simmer for a few minutes?

Yes, you will conserve fuel. How much depends on a lot of things, so the only way to know how much is to try your set-up.

You can approximate by cutting a wide slot in a 3" disk of soft aluminum, like a cut and flattened pop can. If you leave the "slot tab" attached at one end and you will be able to adjust your burn. (Handle the hot disk with pliers)

I use a Caldera Cone and the 12-10 stove. I use a molded and cut down aluminum muffin tin with a hole in it as a "simmer ring" for my steam-baking.

After bringing the 1/2 cup of water to a boil I can get another 20 to 25 minutes of simmering.

Sweet. I see some garage experiments today!!

Yes, as greg stated, you will conserve fuel.

With greg's simmer device, heat gets transferred back to the burner which in turn continues to heat up the fuel and evaporate faster. It also looks like it reduces the incoming air which will make the little flames on the inside of the burner get smaller, which in turn makes the burner hard to stay lit. In the case of the 12-10, when it is starts to lose heat, there is a point when it starts to "burp" (excess fumes accumulate to a point where they ignite with a "poofh") so, be aware of that. Having to use a pair of pliers is not user friendly. Trail Designs came out with simmer device but yet to see it on the market or see results posted by those that were sent samples to test.

If someone wants a sample of the ones I've come up with let me know. The response to this new device is low which makes me think everyone has settled in on their own ways of simmering(like greg) and also kinda indicates that not many want to simmer something or bake. This new device is based on the KISS principle. Totally user friendly.

"With greg's simmer device, heat gets transferred back to the burner which in turn continues to heat up the fuel and evaporate faster.

"In the case of the 12-10, when it is starts to lose heat, …"

So… the simmer device transfers heat back, yet the 12-10 looses heat….

ok……….

“Trail Designs came out with simmer device but yet to see it on the market or see results posted by those that were sent samples to test.”

Trail Designs Simmer Ring offers

a) $9.95 standard simmer ring that reduces your cooking speed by 85%

b) $24.90 adjustable simmer ring set reduces cooking speed by 50% – 85%

I do not know of any independent test results using them.

"If someone wants a sample of the ones I've come up with let me know. The response to this new device is low which makes me think everyone has settled in on their own ways of simmering(like greg) and also kinda indicates that not many want to simmer something or bake. This new device is based on the KISS principle. Totally user friendly."

I'm interested in your simmer device. One reason I have not responded previously is that I have not been as active recently. The other is that I am thinking of changing over to Starlyte, and so am more interested in simmer for that just now.

How would one set up for simmering in a Sidewinder (1300ml)? Use two Starlyte stoves? Or can one take one Starlyte stove plus a simmer attachment?

BTW: how much does a Starlyte weigh? (I have just been assuming it is light enough.)

Ran my first test with zelphs sweet new idea…

Modified starlyte, ~1 liter cold tap water no lid in a greasepot, cone windscreen, two different burns in kitchen – each with 10g methanol blend fuel:

1. No simmer device, stove ran for 11:15 and warmed the water 80F/45C

2. Oversized Carbon felt simmer ring with dime size center hole, stove burned for 33:10 and warmed the water 80F/45C.

Note I put the felt on for burn no2 right after starting the stove. This one seems to work as well as any of the simmer add ons I've tried so far and in the kitchen at least is much more user friendly.

Next set of tests will look at how it does for fuel consumption for an extended boil and then a dry bake…this is where all of my simmer devices loose effectiveness (they still work just not as well as I'd like).

The main concern I have right now is how well the felt will stay put in the wind.

Thanks for post in dan.

Robert,
"Trail Designs came out with simmer device but yet to see it on the market or see results posted by those that were sent samples to test."

I tried this approach several years ago. I used a slotted Ti band.

I found it a little challenging to get the ring in place when the stove was going (like after bringing the water to a boil). Just couldn't get it to drop on easily.

Compared to the "muffin tin cap" you burn a more fuel (sorry, no data). With the muffin tin you can adjust the flame by opening or closing the tab a bit. And a muffin time makes a good snuffer.

Edited to Add: Two issues Probably affected my "ring" implementation – 1) it most likely had a small taper and if I was dropping it on "small end first" it would jam. 2) my 12-10 is pretty wrinkled from abuse, and that undoubtedly contributed to the jaming as well.

In all fairness, risking $10 is NBD to see how it works. It could be PFM.
Rand and TD are very good at what they do.

blean, thanks for the link. I did not know TD had come out with that. Usually I would see it posted on BPL I only remember this design shown last year:

Bob Shaver Trail Designs Simmer

A StarLyte burner weighs 16gr with lid. Carbon felt simmer device weighs 3gr. These are what you can use for an easy user friendly set-up.

Those of you that have carbon felt can make DIY simmers. 1/2″ hole for the StarLyte and 3/8″ for the 12-10. I use steel rule dies to cut mine, You can use a harbor Freight hand punch if you have one.

The photos at TD look as if the 1 piece simmer is tapered but has Trail Designs written on the side so you can tell which side goes up when placing it on the burner. It would be good if someone could post the directions on how the device is to be placed. Do you have to snuff out the burner first and then relight. Placing the the Ti simmer over a flame doesn’t seem easy, I would think the burner needs to be snuffed.

When the carbon felt device is placed onto the 12-10(starLyte also) it covers the entire top of the burner and the flame no longer touches the aluminum. The flame transfers up to the top of the carbon device and continues to burn. Only a small amount of heat is absorbed by the device for transfer back to burner, so the burner starts to cool down, vaporization of fuel is slowed. The device also blocks heat radiating off the bottom of the pot so that the burner functions more efficiently(burns at a even rate).

Ok "extended boil" test (or the boil that never was): .25L water in lidless greespot with cone windscreen and same 10 ml of methanol:

1) no simmer top: rolling boil at 5:15. Stove out at 10:10.

2) simmer top: rolling boil never reached. Stove ran for 33:40 and the water finished at 162f . about half way through I wished I had used a lid. After about 125f the stove was just barely keeping up with evaporative losses (~50gr total water loss) and rate of temp rise slowed to a crawl.

The point of this test was to see how much extended time at elevated temperature inside the cone impact the fuel consumption relative to yesterdays tests. After about ten mins into test to the water temp was 125 so the simmer setup spent quite awhile at what I'd call elevated temp. But again I was hoping for an extended boi. I may run again with less water and a lid or may just move on to dry baking.

Depending on how that goes I may increase the size of the felt hole.

Dan I'd totally be interested in one for the starlyte (modified version)…..I don't seem to have enough testosterone in my system to actually come up with these things on my own….l

James, get a lid on it :-)

Jen, I'll send one out today. Drink lots of Ginseng tea to increase testosterone. You'll soon see very fine blonde hair growing on your chest ;) Ideas on these types of projects will come a lot easier.

I'ts down into the single digits here in Northern IL. so my testing is postponed. Maybe I can sneak a few indoor tests….mums the word;)

Test conducted on my unheated porch.

Had 2 cups of water brought to a boil using the 12-10. Used the Caldera Cone for the foster keg.

Once the water boiled I let it boil till fuel ran out. Lifted off the cone and keg, added 1/2 ounce of fuel, lit the burner and then placed the felt device onto burner, replaced cone and pot. With the lid slightly off to the side, the water temp hovered around 210 degrees. At times when I removed the cover I could see a small column of bubbles rising in the middle. bubbles were of the 1/4" size.

1/2 ounce of HEET simmered for 22 min.

The ideal situation is to use 1 ounce of fuel. 1/2 of it would boil 2 cups and then lift the unit up and place felt device onto burner and replace cone unit. Simmer for desired length.

The Trail Designs simmer ring looks just like what I made out of a Coke can a few years ago, I think I posted results. My ring weighed a gram or two and was free. Not sure what the Ti version gets you, maybe it fits tighter around the holes in the 12-10, but my version worked fine for simmering. By raising it slightly so some of the holes are exposed you can increase the flame intensity, but I usually just covered them all for the slowest burn.

12 of the carbon felt simmer devices will be given away at the upcoming GGG gathering in California.

Where- Henry W Coe State Park, Morgan Hill , CA

When- January 24-26th 201

Also to be given away will be 22 Venom Super Stoves, 6 Original StarLyte burners, 6 Modified StarLyte burners. There will also be some very popular Fancee Feest stoves.

I'm hoping to have more people test the carbon felt simmer disc because I think it is so user friendly.

Trail Designs has a new simmer device that will probably be at the GGG gathering so you'll be able to see how theirs is applied. At the time I started this thread I was not aware of TD having a simmer device. I will not be making discs for the TD 12-10 stoves.

If there are more test results available for the samples I sent out please post:-)

Thanks again Dan. I'm packing the fuel. We'll get some photos posted certainly.

Dan, I used the felt simmer disk with a modified starlyte burner to make a large biscuit for biscuit and gravy…in single F temps on a recent trip – each worked great. Thanks for the idea.

Ken, I sent out another package this morning with Fancee Feest stoves and a couple other items.

Klein, put a lid on the pot, bring to boil and then place simmer disc on to see how it works?

watch the video again to see how the disc works. The 12-10 stove is hot from just finishing the boil of 2 cups and now it’s time to simmer. The disc is then placed on the burner and it takes awhile for the flame to settle down as the burner calms down. There is a lot of evaporation going on due to the heat.

It will be interesting to see how the TD simmer ring works at the upcoming GGG outing in CA.

DY
Adventures In Stove Making

Trail Designs Simmer Ring offers
a) $9.95 standard simmer ring that reduces your cooking speed by 85%
b) $24.90 adjustable simmer ring set reduces cooking speed by 50% – 85%

I do not know of any independent test results using them.

I don’t know about price at the time the above was posted but the adjustable version is $14.95 now.

This posting links to a couple video demos.

I have a standard version coming … will report back after it arrives.

Thanks Jim for the link. I viewed that thread as it was progressing. I'm interested in seeing how the simmer sleeve is applied. Does the burner have to be blown out and then the sleeve applied and then re lit. For dry baking do you use a cold burner, apply the simmer sleeve/ring and then light?

I read today that Lee from TD did a demo at last years GGG gathering in CA. Does anyone remember what Lee said about the device or see the demo?

Here is a quote from last years GGG:

"""Lee Demonstrating Alcohol Stove & Simmering Ring
Maybe the simmering ring was a new product that will be released or simply a prototype, I was not sure and I failed to get a photo of it while it was out briefly. A simple metal ring that is placed over their Aluminum 12-10 alcohol stove that covered the air intake holes on the side of the stove to create the ability to simmer food. Ingeniously simple and effective, like their Caldera Cone."""

"A simple metal ring that is placed over their Aluminum 12-10 alcohol stove that covered the air intake holes"

I use only a strip of aluminum foil that is formed to cover most of the air intake holes. I don't need any commercial product for any price.

–B.G.–