Multi-use Winter Jacker DAS?

MHW B'layman's are on sale now for $120 at campsaver. If your size fits it's a pretty good deal and should be more than warm enough for anything you do with proper layering based off your needs. On hte plus, if you do get involved in snowshoeing the rockies, it should work for that!

Nice find! Unfortunately I'm a classic medium and MHW is a big fit already.

Hopefully someone that has a DAS parka will be able to chime in for you. Off hand, I would think the DAS is a bit pricey. Depending on what you already own, you might be able to get a more versatile combo of jackets or just a warmer and cheaper puffy. Not sure exactly where it falls on the spectrum of insulation quality, but the new DAS is using primaloft synergy. From my understanding, this is not as warm as primaloft one. It also only has 120g. Depending on the temperature and whether you're active or neutral, it may not provide a ton of warmth.

Do you own a shell? What about a midlayer? If you were planning on spending 300 dollars for the DAS parka, people might be able to help you come up with some great, versatile set ups. If you shop sales, you can get some really good deals too.

edit: I guess a versatile set up doesn't really address the intention of your "do-it-all" jacket post. Woops. I still think you could find a better, warmer jacket for less money than the DAS.

If I got a DAS parka it would be on the cheap used if I could find it.

I have an MEC Vega hoodie (R1 clone) and t2 hoodie. I also have a mec uplink hoodie which is a really lightweight synthetic. I typically use dryducks for an outer shell in winter as my other shell compresses layers. I have a wind shirt as well in the closet.

Currently my cold layer uper body layers would be (at most):

Ibex indie hoodie

MEC Vega

Wind Shirt

Montane Featherlite Down Jacket

Cheapo Sears Down Jacket

driducks

I love, love, love my Arcteryx Atom SV. Worth every penny.

Agreed. Atom SV is one of the best things in my kit- but not warm enough for Calgary winters in static conditions.

Here's another 100g Primaloft jacket to consider:

The First Ascent Igniter

http://www.eddiebauer.com/catalog/product.jsp?ensembleId=43267&&categoryId=27598&categoryName=MENS-FIRST-ASCENT-PRIMALOFT&pCategoryId=28476&pCategoryName=MENS-FIRST-ASCENT&gpCategoryId=28475&gpCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT&ggpCategoryId=1&ggpCategoryName=EB&catPath=~~categoryId=27598~~categoryName=MENS-FIRST-ASCENT-PRIMALOFT~~pCategoryId=28476~~pCategoryName=MENS-FIRST-ASCENT~~gpCategoryId=28475~~gpCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT~~ggpCategoryId=1~~ggpCategoryName=EB&viewAll=n&pg=1&cmPathInfo=null

$199.00 regular price, but I'd wait for one of the numerous EB sales.

Steven, do you have any experience with igniter?

If you're set on super warm synthetic, I would consider the new version of the OR Chaos jacket. It has 170g of primaloft one and a pertex endurance shell. It should be pretty nice and is backed by ORs warranty. I recently picked up the older version of the Chaos as just an around town winter jacket since I found it crazy cheep. The older version has 133g primaloft eco and gore windstopper shell. So far I find it pretty warm but haven't tested it below 20f. The new version is a significant upgrade.

the new DAS has the insulation switched to primaloft synergy for the most part … 120g synergy 60g PL1

patagucci made all sorts of excuses about why the did so … including stuff about "breathability" and "durability"

http://coldthistle.blogspot.ca/2012/11/primaloft.html

http://coldthistle.blogspot.ca/2012/12/patagonia-das-for-20132014.html

the fact remains that by switching they have given the reduced the theoretical insulative value of the primaloft by ~20-30% … and made it less compressible to boot as synergy is a long staple fiber

note that they did the same with the micropuff by switching from PL1 to PL sport …

personally if i were to pay $$$$$ for a jacket, id get one with PL1 or a top notch insulation … or id need to have it on a massive 50%+ off sale if it has lesser insulation

when even "lesser" companies like MEC, EB, LL bean are using top notch PL1 on their reasonably priced gear … ask yourself why a "best" company like pataguccis is telling you that lower quality insulation is better???

especially as they have used PL1 for years prior just fine …

;)

I really think you are better off building a winter wardrobe with a waterproof shell and an assortment of insulation mid-layers, of which you already have one.

If you go the insulated parka route, then you can ONLY wear that when it's really cold. If you get a shell, and a down mid-layer, and a primaloft midlayer, and a fleece midlayer, then you have all those combinations plus all those individual pieces.

For reference, the most I've ever bundled up for snow shoeing is a polartec powerstretch fleece (like a 100-wt fleece) and driclime windshirt. I would boil to death in that Patagonia insulated parka for something physically demanding. That's mores something you would wear sitting around in the cold. If you did the same thing with a synthetic insulation layer and a windshell, you'd have a lot more flexibility. You can buy that sort of thing as a 3-in-1 parka with a fleece or synthetic puffy zip in liner. Or just buy the pieces separately — which I think makes more sense.

Those sorts of parkas are even too much for just running around town, if you are in your car. The piece I wear more often than not in winter in NH for around town is a Marmot Zeus down jacket — pretty much like the Patagonia down hoody. If it's actually snowing or sleeting, I'll wear a fleece and a softshell hoody. If I'm out in heavy snow, I'll wear a GoreTex hooded shell over an insulation layer.

Downhill skiing is a bit of challenge because you boil on the way down (working hard) and freeze on the way up (sitting on a chair lift). So, zippers to vent are key.

If you're set on super warm synthetic, I would consider the new version of the OR Chaos jacket. It has 170g of primaloft one and a pertex endurance shell. It should be pretty nice and is backed by ORs warranty. I recently picked up the older version of the Chaos as just an around town winter jacket since I found it crazy cheep. The older version has 133g primaloft eco and gore windstopper shell. So far I find it pretty warm but haven't tested it below 20f. The new version is a significant upgrade.

i have the old old version with 170g of PL eco (the old eco with the higher clo value not the new stuff) which i bought very very cheap

glad to see OR is going all PL1 for this piece without the windstopper

;)

having spent the better part of a February in Calgary I can attest that single didget f° days are not unheard of. I'd opt for down. You can typically find a preowned ff volant with 11 oz of 800 down for half of what you'd pay for the Patagonia jacket if you watch on eBay. If you are sold on synthetic take a look at the wild things belay jacket with 6 oz of primaloft sport.having both the ff and wtjackets, I can say they will both keep you warm, but if I were in your situation I'd go with the ff. Arcteryx makes the dually belay parka, a synthetic insulation parka which is crazy warm,but is also crazy expensive.

Good luck-

Thank you all for your responses. Just to clarify a few things:

I don't imagine myself snowshoeing or doing other strenuous activities in anything more than these layers for my upper body:

wool hoodie
grid fleece hoodie
windshirt

I went snowshoeing in Jasper last march with the wool and grid fleece hoodies and was plenty warm while moving. I like the combination too because they allow for lots of variability (hood on/hoood off, zipped up/ unzipped) depending on conditions and physical output.

I can add my down jackets to these layers at rest and in camp and probably would be fine into the low twenties.

The cheapo down jacket doesn't have a lot of loft for it's weight so I am considering replacing it with another jacket. It makes sense in my head to get a synthetic puffy to add diversity to my system, and to allow me to feel better about sweating in it a little skiing of what not. But a warmer puffy (something like the RAB neutrino endurance/ plus) would also interest me and I like the longevity of down over synthetic.

On second thought I don't think I've clarified anything…

I'm sitting an hour south of the Canadian border. It's -1F outside. Probably 5 degrees colder down in town where I'll be catching the bus in an hour.

A DAS class or warmer coat is a good investment.

A synthetic belay parka is nice for an overlayer when out skiing, etc because it manages internal moisture better. It's a bit less bulky for town use.

Down is warmer, potentially a lot warmer. I'll be wearing my MEC Reflex (sadly no longer made) for the walk downtown today.

Those who've used the jacket, do you think that it will be significantly warmer than my Montane featherlite hooded jacket 5oz of fill. I don't know if I want a super parka given that I don't know how long I'll be living up north.

i understand your thinking, but you don't necessarily buy a warm parka for how many times you are going to wear it, but for the times that you need it. the putting on and taking off of many multiple layers of outerwear just to walk outside can get old after a while. living for any length of time in a town like calgary, i'd put a "super parka" in the same catagory as tire chains/snow tires. if you can get by with what you’ve got that’s fine, but when it’s brutally cold and you spend any time outside, you should think about value, not always the cost. it really sucks to be freezing cold.

>> the putting on and taking off of many multiple layers of outerwear just to walk outside can get old after a while.

The big disadvantage I've found for all-in-one parkas is that, when it's that cold outside, I'm already wearing a fleece or insulation layer inside. So I end up having to take off the fleece to put on the heavy all-in-one parka.

If you want to go that route, buying a parka with a zip-in synthetic liner at least lets you remove the liner to extend the use of the waterproof shell to less frigid conditions or for use over a fleece you might already be wearing.

@HWC, I'm not sure that's what the above poster was recommending. I don't know anyone on this forum that uses the typical 3-in-1 winter combos sold by so many companies. What they are recommending is one heavy-weight insulation layer (well medium weight depending on your cold weather adventures). This is rather than using a few midlayers to approximate a single insulation piece.

In Calgary, where at this moment the weather -10F, the average low is in single digits and the records are all -30F or colder from Nov-March…BEFORE windchill, I would definitely recommend one major insulating layer for those "winter done came" days. The Rab Neutrino Endurance will definitely be warmer than the featherlite. It has right around 8oz of higher quality down so nearly 60% more insulation. In addition it is cut longer so it will provide more warmth for the torso. The Neutrino Endurance is basically good for nearly any winter climbing in the lower 48s so should be good for city winter life in Calgary. Combined with your featherlite and you would have 13oz of high quality down keep your core warm. This is probably the most versatile way for you to stay warm, not quite the lightest, but at around 2.5lbs total you have a jacket system comparable to an EB Peak XV in down fill and weight so you are in the proper ball park!

when i referred to multiple layers it was more in the spirit of a thrown together layering mish mash because you've skimped on buying the right outer wear, similar to how the tow truck driver who comes to rescue you at 2:00 in the morning and the time and the temperature are the same is dressed. he's wearing a tee shirt, long john's, plaid wool shirt, sweater, fleece, hoodie sweat shirt, vest and topped off by a carhartt jacket and he's still stamping around because he's cold. most "super parkas' anticipate that you'll have on some additional layer i.e. fleece or sweater and if you're taking the dog for a walk and it's right around zero, you're not going to be hot with that and your das or belay jacket or ff volant. in regards to zip-in's to shells, i can't think of one that unless it's also combined with something like an additional 100gm/4oz primaloft jacket is going to take you down into the single digit range f* standing around for too much time. and in the break-down situation above, you're nice and warm because you've put your "super parka" on and you're wearing th sorrell's and chopper gloves you keep in the trunk of your car.

If it's cold enough to need that much insulation, it's certainly not going to be raining. Why would you want to always be stuck with a PU coated shell? If it's raining/sleeting/wet enough to need a waterproof layer, why would you possibly need that much insulation?

If you are going to be standing or working outdoors for extended periods of time, sure… I can see it. But, as a very warm parka to wear in and out the car, even at 0F, I don't think that piece is going to be the most flexible bang for the buck.

I live in NH, granted not as cold as Calgary, but we have winter temps in the single digits. Unless I were working as a ski lift attendant, I doubt I would wear that jacket more than once a year. It's way too heavy for any physical activity.

If you've already got an assortment of winter jackets of different weights, then I can see adding that DAS jacket, but I don't think it would be the most flexible first purchase.

The DAS, and any of those heavy synth belay parkas, exist for two purposes. Climbing or extended trips, often both at the same time. When you're climbing a big wall in sub freezing temps, that does not the prevent the sun from melting snow and ice above you and making you climb in an icy waterfall. At this point a water proof synth belay jacket becomes very welcome.

The other scenario is extended trips in cold but moist conditions. When your puffy is dealing with both moisture from wet snow (even cold snow can be wet with maritime conditions) and from your own imperceptible perspiration, down can fail after 3 days or so. Here a synth comes in pretty handy since it dries out faster and is marginally more comfortable when wet.

I still agree with you though that a full PU coated outer is a bit much and can hamper drying times for most usage cases. Still it does help prevent contact moisture from wet snow seeping into the insulation. The DAS has been monkeyed around with so much year to year though that it's not a great benchmark for synthetic belays unfortunately…despite Pata's marketing.

del

I'm fine with recommending synthetic insulation. Certainly for any winter activity where you are going to get wet — from mixed precip or melting snow or sweat — synthetic is probably a better choice than down.

However, in an ideal world, I'd rather than have a waterproof shell that I can wear with (or without) a down insulation layer OR with (or without) a synthetic insulation layer. And, those two insulation layer can be doubled up to deal with occasions when you need serious warmth.

One other issue: While quality down can last essentially forever if washed properly, synthetic insulation is (in my experience) ultimately disposable. It has a limited shelf life and doesn't stand up that well to repeated washing, packing, etc. For that reason, I think it makes more sense to buy your synthetic insulation as a separate layer that can be replaced as necessary — or as apart of a cheap parka.

There are so many different ways to go, I think you have to really think about what you will be doing. Dressing to sit in the stadium of an NFL game at 10F is different from dressing to shovel a sidewalk or snow shoe, or even dash to the car and back.