Nov 6, 2013 at 5:23 am #1309527
Ron BellBPL Member
Due to unintended confusion about the spirit and/or content of the post, I am deleting it.
We are sorry about the confusion.Nov 6, 2013 at 7:00 am #2041735
@lunchandynnerLocale: Pacific Northwest
Cool! Just voted!Nov 6, 2013 at 7:53 am #2041757
Really stupid question, but how do I "like" that post on your Facebook page? I see a bunch of "likes" have been given, but I don't see a "like" button anywhere.
I'm usually pretty good with computers and websites and such, but Facebook's interface has always confused me.Nov 6, 2013 at 7:53 am #2041760
Nick GatelBPL Member
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
I don't do Facebook.
I am not sure I quite understand this.
Are you asking/bribing us with a chance to win gear if we vote for your company in TGO Awards Contest? In other words, are you you trying to "fix" the voting for the TGO Awards?
You also state we must "Like" you on Facebook to get a chance to enter the drawing. I am not sure what "Like" is, but it sounds as if a company that has a lot of people who "Like" them can sell more products. Seems people should Like you, based on your product and customer service — not because you in essence bought the "Like" votes.
Now if people buy votes in a public election here in the US, it is against the law.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
If I am correct, I will never buy another MLD product.Nov 6, 2013 at 8:11 am #2041763
Greg MihalikBPL Member
Social media voting is the norm. Not saying it's right, just what happens. Our little town just had a "Best of _______" campaign. Guess how the top of the heap got there.
Used to be the manufactures had to bribe a bunch of industry reps, reporters, and bloggers. Now they go directly to the consumer.
If you exclude all gear manufactures that go this route you'll probably just be left with REI.Nov 6, 2013 at 8:14 am #2041765
TAG in AZBPL Member
Original post: Not sure what is going on. I tried to like; the post, but cannot figure out how.Anyway, I voted. Hope you guys win.
EDIT: Like button worked once I joined the group.Nov 6, 2013 at 8:34 am #2041773
“If I am correct, I will never buy another MLD product.”
Well I will make sure I buy two pieces of MLD product to make up for it.
I don’t see anything wrong with an owner of a business to ask his cliental, who like his products, to support him by voting for him in the TGO Awards. The contest to win MLD products is just bonus for those who like his products.
But I don’t think it is really a question being wrong or correct. If you see this as an ethical dilemma and/or if you don’t like his products, don’t vote, don’t like, or don’t buy!Nov 6, 2013 at 8:48 am #2041777
nmNov 6, 2013 at 8:49 am #2041778
@lunchandynnerLocale: Pacific Northwest
You have to join the group, wait a couple seconds/minute before your request is approved, then you can hit like.Nov 6, 2013 at 9:01 am #2041781
ZPacksNov 6, 2013 at 9:03 am #2041783
Nick, I don't know if it's against the rules, but it certainly seems against the spirit. Encouraging/exhorting people to vote is one thing, offering material rewards for voting is another IMHO.Nov 6, 2013 at 9:08 am #2041785
Thank you, that worked once Ron approved my request (thanks Ron).Nov 6, 2013 at 9:11 am #2041787
“It is the entering to win free MLD gear by voting for MLD, that I suspect would be the issue. Clearly, it taints the voting process by encouraging you to vote for a specific manufacturer.”
I suspect it is the issue if you choose to see it that way. I don’t see it that way because the vague offer of a draw from some company would not encourage me to vote for a company whose product I did not support.Nov 6, 2013 at 9:17 am #2041788
@ Paul. And do you think everyone has your scruples or do you think some will vote simply in the hope of free gear?
This has been on MLD's Facebook page for some time. (I like MLD and their gear.) That didn't bother me too much as it would only been seen by people interested in MLD anyway. But posting it here with the thread title including "free gear" brings it to the attention of all sorts of people who are interested in getting something for free and not necessarily MLD fans.Nov 6, 2013 at 9:26 am #2041792
nmNov 6, 2013 at 9:39 am #2041795
I think that is a stupid thing to do and at this moment I feel a little bit like when G.W. announced that when he is elected we will all get our stimulus check. One big difference is that five minutes ago I liked MLD and if Ron had asked for my vote without the bribe he might have gotten it. Saying its the way things are dont make it right.Nov 6, 2013 at 9:58 am #2041802
@william – Hey, I don’t claim to be a Pillar of Virtue! I just think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill; however, I do see your point about posting it here and not keeping just on their Facebook page. That said, I was happy that Ron did post here because if he had not, I probably would have not known about the TGO awards. Having just moved back from the UK and having done a lot of hiking in Scotland, I was glad to be pointed to the awards because there were other categories where I recognized the nominees.
@dave – Fair question. I noted Zpacks in the list and I have gear from both so I did have to think about the choice for a bit. As it stood, I voted for MLD mainly because while in Scotland I actually come across the Trail Star in the wild a couple of times and the owners were very happy with them. I would like to think that my vote was influenced by the fact that I associate that shelter with Scottish weather rather than I was influenced by free gear – but who knows.
I still think crying foul is a little much.Nov 6, 2013 at 10:27 am #2041813
Ron BellBPL Member
xNov 6, 2013 at 10:45 am #2041820
It's pretty much accepted fact that companies in such contests will use social media to solicit votes, and even offer contests/prizes. Very common, very much the way things are done these days, very expected. Ron isn't doing anything that isn't pretty much standard business practice now.Nov 6, 2013 at 10:55 am #2041823
@ Ron, "How great would it be if it was all dialed down a few notches?" I'm not sure what needs dialling down. Nobody seems to have got abusive on this thread; however, there has been a disagreement on whether a chance of free gear should be offered in return for a vote in a best gear competition. This is sort of debate is as it should be, in my opinion. And this would be a very boring forum if everyone always agreed.
I own a couple of pieces of MLD gear, and it's I think it's a great company making great stuff. I've also been a long-time member of the Facebook page. Moreover, there are some rather lame companies in the running for best equipment manufacturer, so although my vote went to ZPacks (for a number of reasons, their gear is generally more suitable for me), I would certainly rather see MLD winning rather than most others. However, it still strikes me as wrong to offer incentives to vote that might (almost certainly will) entice people to vote for you insincerely.Nov 6, 2013 at 10:57 am #2041825
That's a kind offer.Nov 6, 2013 at 11:01 am #2041827
JR, I'm far from perfect, but my conscience certainly isn't ruled by standard practice. And personally I don't think that "not doing anything that isn't pretty much standard business practice now" is synonymous with doing the right (ethical) thing.
But enough of my opinions; there seems to be plenty of people who disagree. This is perhaps getting too close to chaff.Nov 6, 2013 at 11:10 am #2041831
Katharina LångstrumpBPL Member
@kat_pLocale: Pacific Coast
I agree that this is a pretty standard practice and no demonizing should happen. I also agree with what William wrote above, that just because something is standard practice it does not mean one cannot point out a fault with it.
So to me it's no biggie but I appreciate those that remind us that sometimes we just go along with things, eg. "standard practices" and we ought to take a double look. At least this practice, that may be questionable, is out in the open and that should mean something too.
The unfortunate part of it is that one vendor is taking the brunt of the fault here and that does not seem fair.
Edited for spelling.Nov 6, 2013 at 11:44 am #2041844
Jake DBPL Member
no extra contest but Zpacks is advertising voting on their facebook page too… so whatever.
i figure it's all advertising. winning the award is advertising.. contest is advertising.
always amazed at how offended people get at things that have nothing to do with them and could be easily ignored by not clicking.Nov 6, 2013 at 12:39 pm #2041862
"always amazed at how offended people get at things that have nothing to do with them and could be easily ignored by not clicking."
Maybe I care because (perhaps uniquely on this thread) I'm a subscriber to TGO. It has its detractors in the UK, but I think it's a decent magazine. Maybe the whole idea of the awards is flawed, but that's another argument.
Has anybody looked at MLD's Facebook page recently? More people have commented that they have voted since this thread started than in the previous nearly 3 weeks that it's been up on MLD's Facebook page (including many names that I recognise from this forum). Maybe it's my age but it just doesn't seem quite right to me.
Edited to add: I want to point out again that I think MLD is a great company with great products.
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