Western Mountaineering on water resistant down and Pertex fabric

[Gabe P]

Anything new from WM on this?

[Eric Blanche]

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/about/

 

towards bottom of page. Seems like nothing new yet. Still testing.

[Stephen M]

Similar post on Feathered Friends website, not a peep out of PHD or Valandre.

http://featheredfriends.com/faq/

[Stuart .]

Good answer on the FF site about the difference between duck and goose down.

As for water resistant down, given that some of the early adopter cottage manufacturers are moving away from it and some of the premier companies are cautious about adopting it, this still seems to be a time to wait rather than jump in.

[Gabe P]

thanks! Been thinking it’s just a gimmick – one that might work slightly for a while but that washes out quickly and limits the life of the feathers. Guess the jury is still out

[JCH]

I’m glad WR down is out there, but I’m not jumping in yet…old school is working just fine for me thank you very much. We have decades of data on the performance and longevity of “traditional” down…it’s going to be a very long time before we have that kind of data on WR down. Not to mention all the variations on WR down technology.

[Miles Spathelf]

Just curious…

Which cottage makers have moved away from DWR down?

 

“As for water resistant down, given that some of the early adopter cottage manufacturers are moving away from it and some of the premier companies are cautious about adopting it, this still seems to be a time to wait rather than jump in.”

[J-L]

ZPacks is one example. From their website:

“Water resistant down is just normal down that is washed with a water resistant treatment by the factory. In theory this treatment makes the down take longer to wet out, and may retain a little bit less water after being soaked, however real world results are hard to observe. The down still wets out after a while and you still need to be careful to keep your bag dry. I personally think that the benefits are very minor. We have also noticed that the treated down can be more clingy and can take more work to break apart clumps and fluff the bag up, which could result in cold spots if the bag isn’t fluffed well.

It is for this reason that we have decided to streamline our production and discontinue WR down as a standard option as of November 2014.”

It’s only on their twin quilts page.

[Miles Spathelf]

Thanks!  Are there any others or is Zpacks the only one that has dropped DWR down?

 

”

ZPacks is one example. From their website:

“Water resistant down is just normal down that is washed with a water resistant treatment by the factory. In theory this treatment makes the down take longer to wet out, and may retain a little bit less water after being soaked, however real world results are hard to observe. The down still wets out after a while and you still need to be careful to keep your bag dry. I personally think that the benefits are very minor. We have also noticed that the treated down can be more clingy and can take more work to break apart clumps and fluff the bag up, which could result in cold spots if the bag isn’t fluffed well.

It is for this reason that we have decided to streamline our production and discontinue WR down as a standard option as of November 2014.”

It’s only on their twin quilts page.”

[Jennifer Mitol]

one other thought…

I washed my EE Enigma (with downtek) after my CT thru and this time I couldn’t really break up the clumps.  I have a lot of migrated down and a few cold spots now that I can’t seem to make go away.

I’m going to try to re-wet it and re-dry it, this time with tennis balls, and far more attention to breaking up the clumps than I have had to in the past (which still was quite a lot anyway).

To be honest, I’m not sure I’d get a WR down product in my quilt again.

[Stephen M]

Hi Jen,

That’s a real shame, have you spoken to Tim\Peter about it?

I was all up for this technology 2-3 years ago but not so bothered now, I might change one of my bags if WM come out with a new solution but may not.   I have moved away from down clothing for all my trips bar ones at 0F (I still have a monster down park and trousers for this) so not such a big deal for me anymore.

 

 

 

 

[Jennifer Mitol]

I’m going to wait to see if a re-wet and re-dry with the tennis balls does it.  If not, then absolutely I’m going to talk to them about it.  I need to make sure it wasn’t just user-error before I mention it to them.  My thoughts are that the DWR down will need more attention during washing/drying than the untreated version….

We’ll see.  It didn’t happen the first time I washed it (last year…).

[Stephen M]

Hopefully it will be ok Jen, if not Tim will look after you.

Do report back.

[Matt Dirksen]

Hi Jen,

In lieu of tennis balls, might I recommend wool dryer balls. We use them in all of our laundry, since they pretty much eliminate the need for any fabric softener.  I have used them for many of our sleeping bags over the years, and they work quite well at de-clumping down. While I do have an Enigma downtek bag, I haven’t washed it, even though I have a couple hundred miles on it. (Perhaps I should smell it when I get home.) I do always wear a full base layer when I sleep in it.

Anyway, while you can certainly buy wool dryer balls, here’s a link to making them:

http://www.diynatural.com/how-to-make-wool-dryer-balls/

 

[James holden]

just put some heavy cotton/wool (not expensive ones) socks in the dryer …

thatll do the same job …

as to the DWR down … im debating myself wether to get a rab/MH 800 DWR down bag, or a WM 850 fill non DWR down one

the problem i have is that ill be using the bag with minimal shelter (exposed ledges, WPB bivy bags, small tarps/bothies) … so the DWR may actually be worth it for the condensation resistance

hmmmmmmm

;)

 

 

[Jennifer Mitol]

thanks for the tips guys!

[Stephen M]

That’s a fair dilemma Eric,

 

Rab use Nikwax down treatment, could that be applied on a non DWR down bag I wonder.

[James holden]

well im actually debating whether to use a blizzard bag for summer bivies stephen

ive tested it down to PNW rainy 5C conditions … and they are fairly accurately rated at 8 togs

all in one bivy and bag for 380g … the problem is the condensation (no down jackets inside unless under synth)

and the noise … if folks thought a neo air was krinkly, its like a meditation mat compared to the SNAP CRACKLE POP of the blizzard

but then short bivies arent supposed to be comfortable anyways … yr probably too exhausted to care

its that or 260 maple syrup dollhaz for the rab neutrino 200, $350 for the MH phantom 32, or $440 for the WM highlite

the WM will probably last the longest down wise … but i guarantee that ill be putting a hole or rip in the bag before it takes that long with the UL fabrics and putting it down on rocky ledges

;)

[Stephen M]

Hi Eric,

After sleeping in a Blizzard bag once I definitley would not want to do it again due to the noise (even with ear plugs) unless it’s for its intended use.

Sounds like the Rab is the way to go, for summer I got a WM Terralite which can be used as a proper bag or quilt, a bit heavy but not overly so.

Do Mec have any offerings?

 

 

 

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Rab uses Nikwax Hydrophobic Down, which probably uses their Downproof-technology as a basis, but I would be surprised if they would simply get their Hydrophobic Down by applying just the same process, and nothing more, that you can do at home.

But by using their Down Wash and Downproof, you can make the down in your bag somewhat water repellant.

[Stephen M]

I have some at home Woubeir, might try it out on a down mitten or bootie.

[Billy Ray]

Someone might try contacting the companies that provide a down washing service. Being that they likely have MUCH more experience washing down products, they might be able to tell us is this clumping issue is real and if so how bad..

Billy

[James holden]

Stephen

MEC has a -3 C 800 fill talon bag, but it weights as much as my EE 20F quilt !!!

The problem with the rab is that its the neutrino endurance 200, a more resistant shell but 675g for 200g of dwr down is a poor ratio … They must have used every trick in th book to get an en-rating LL of 0C, perhaps some “volkswagen testing” protocol =P

with our poor maple syrup dollahz the way it is though im forced to buy from what available up here in canuckistan

otherwise im paying a 50% premium on yankee prices

on that note for u yankee folks, this is the time to buy mec or dead birds off canadian sites

with clerance and the exchange rate you get 50-60% off

;)

 

[Stephen M]

Your right Eric on the Rab weights, I remembered looking at their bags years ago and thinking they are heavy for what they are.

My rule of thumb for 0c is normally 400 grams of down.

Good call on buying from Canada, I am only 5 hours drive from Toronto so might be worth a visit again soon.

[Ross L]

Eric

You have not mentioned the “Dryshell” Taiga Down bags from Vancouver. I was curious as to why you never mention Taiga, too heavy or Dryshell not to your liking? I have a few in my closet that have been very durable that I still sometimes use for ugly conditions. They are a bargain compared to WM.

https://www.taigaworks.ca/Sleeping-Bags-c7

 

 

 

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