Montbell pots

I've not seen quality ti gear for prices like this before. I don't need more pots (well maybe I do), but it's very tempting at these prices. $17 for 900 ml titanium pot and lid? Must buy.

One thing I don't understand: Capacity is for…just the bottom pan (the "body")?

Thanks a ton, great deal, got a big 1.9L and some chopsticks!!

Screamin' deal! $17 for a top brand Ti pot set is a no brainier. I could spend more on a paperback!

The specs seem to refer to pot volume although the lids are pretty substantial and might work on their own for certain applications.

The weights are higher than comparable Evernew but, from what I have seen, the Montbell pots are noticeably thicker and the prices are fantastic.

I picked up three for my scout troop. Thanks

My #1 cooker arrived today. NICE! I like the wide base. It seemed very similar in size to the SnowPeak titanium bowl and surprise, not only does the MontBell lid fit the bowl, the bowl nests perfectly inside the pot and the lid still fits.

Thanks for the deal spotting, Matthew!

Go ahead and sign up for the Montbell Club while you are there. You'll be back.

Yeah, definitely sign up for the points. I didn't the first time around, really regretted it the second and finally learned on my third order that I'll be buying more of what they sell at some point.

You guys got your pots already? Still waiting, here.

Yep I got mine as well, also got an email earlier with tracking so keep an eye out for that also looks like the box had been through customs. The chopsticks are pretty neat, looks like some of the pots are sold out now but I got the 900ml and 1.9L.

Also did any of you guys get the 10x points advertised on the front page?

Wow, these are high quality pots. I think the quality of these Japanese Mont Bells are higher than my Thai-made MSR Titan Kettle. My only puzzlement is why the name 'Mont-Bell' needs to be embossed into the lid, making an area that'll be harder to clean. Very nice set, and thrilled with the price.

My pot of choice is a wide shallow Montbell pot.

I ditched the lid. It was too heavy.

I now use am aluminum foil lid.

The lid could be nice for those that could use it as a shallow skillet when they backpack. Otherwise, too heavy for what it is.

That bit of info basically paid for my new subscription. Thanks!

A shallow skillet, maybe. Titanium works good as a water boiler pot, but as a skillet, it will have a big hot spot.

That might be good if you like having three one-thousandths of an inch of black on the edges of your scrambled eggs.

–B.G.–

>I ditched the lid.

My thought also, although it's not so much a "lid" as another shallow pan. I'd like a lid with a little more substance than foil, so I might try making a lid of aluminum flashing.

@Delmar,

Yes, aluminum flashing would be nicer than the foil. The foil that I use is almost as heavy as flashing material. It is the type that they sell in art supply stores, kind of in-between turkey roaster tray aluminum and flashing in thickness.
It looks like crap, but has worked well for me so far.

I almost used thin titanium sheet, but I didn't have a piece quite big enough.
I may do that in the near future though.

I stopped by the retail store in Boulder and they have 4-5 titanium cooker #2's, 2 #1D's, and 1 1D -no longer available online- in the discount area. They might also have some left in their Portland store which opened two weeks ago. Rumor has it that they are dropping titanium cooking gear from their lineup and replacing it with light stainless steel products.

Any idea why an UL specialist would replace Ti with SS?

Titanium is a poor conductor of heat, has major hot spots, etc. and can't really be used for anything other than boiling water. My guess – they've realized some people actually want to cook in their pots. I'd be impressed if they've figured out a way to make a stainless pot that's close in weight though. Typically non-stick aluminum has been the best choice for lightweight cooking.

Stainless steel could be quite light, if it is made thin enough. But thin stainless won't be much of an improvement over thin Ti. I agree that something like hard anodized aluminum is better for those who want to do more traditional cooking.

I think the stoves we use contribute to the problem. What is needed is a handle that will allow you to keep the pot moving, just like sauteing at home, and/or a stove with a wide flame pattern that can be dialed way down. The current hiking stove and pot offerings are really aimed at boiling— note that some of the Jetboil models recommended for boiling *only.*

I've suggested the making of a small Ti wok. The wok was developed to use with small concentrated fuel sources to cook food cut into small pieces to cook quickly.

The Japanese Montbell site has what appear to be HA aluminum pots in a variety of sizes. The single titanium pot set found on the US site is also listed. There may be steel pots planned, but there is no current indication of such.

Snow Peak has a good assortment of steel pots on their Japanese site. I have seen some of these for sale in the Bay Area at Sports Basement.

> Titanium is a poor conductor of heat, has major hot spots, etc.

Agreed, but: any very thin metal is going to have the problem of hot spots. I'm not seeing how SS would be much improvement for heat distribution over Ti, especially if kept thin. And SS will certainly be heavier for a given thickness. Even aluminum and copper need some "thickness" to do a good job of spreading heat.

Personally I would like to see more (slightly thicker) HA aluminum ware available, but then, there goes the UL credo…

To my knowledge, nobody has clad a very thin Ti or SS with a somewhat thicker base of aluminum (or copper) for camping cookware, as is often done on kitchen cookware. You'd think a thinwall Ti pot with a cladding of 1/16" of aluminum on the bottom would be both light and decent at heat redistribution.

The Kovea Spider has a nice, wide flame pattern. It hasn't burned any of my food using a Toaks/Lite-Trails 900ml Ti pot yet.

Admittedly, I do cook dehydrated food, but I put the dehydrated food into the pot with ambient temp water and bring it up to a boil then let it simmer a minute or two while stirring then put the entire pot into a MYOG reflectix cozy to finish (not entirely necessary after the simmering part, but helps to rehydrate meat better).

I haven't had any problems with burnt on crud or hot spots yet, even when I forgot the stove was still going on medium/low (instead of low for simmer) while doing camp chores.

I guess it could be different if I was trying to fry some eggs or something.

>"To my knowledge, nobody has clad a very thin Ti or SS with a somewhat thicker base of aluminum (or copper) for camping cookware, as is often done on kitchen cookware. You'd think a thinwall Ti pot with a cladding of 1/16" of aluminum on the bottom would be both light and decent at heat redistribution."

Short answer: you'd want to use aluminum if you can (low cost, low density, high thermal conductivity), but you can't use it with titanium, only with stainless.

Details: The differing coefficients of thermal expansion create a problem when heated. The Faberware pots in my kitchen have an aluminum insert at the bottom with SS sides and inner bottom. The coefficients of some SS versus Al is 17 and 22, not a huge percentage difference.

From http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-expansion-coefficients-d_95.html and retyped in a tabular form:

Thermal expansion (differences are bad if planning to bond materials):
Aluminum 22
Silver 19.5
Copper 16.6
Stainless 14-17
Gold 14.2
Platinum 9
Titanium 8.6

Whereas Ti versus Al would be 8.6 and 22 – a much bigger difference. Silver at 19.5 and Copper at 16.6 don't help much if you're trying to use titanium. Gold would be better at 14.2. Platinum would be excellent pairing with titanium: 9 and 8.6. But while gold and platinum have great and good thermal conductivities, they are dense and expensive.

From http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html selected values of thermal conductivity (higher is better for the bottom of the pot:
Silver 429
Copper 401
Gold 310
Aluminum 205
Platinum 70
Titanium 22
Stainless 16

Note how bad Ti and SS are at moving heat away from a hot spot.

I haven't, but you easily could divide thermal conductivity by density to assess the lightest pot bottom of a given "non-hot-spot" performance. Aluminum wins.

Conclusion: Until someone offers BPing pots in SS with an Al-clad bottom, Ti and SS pots will remain best for boiling water and/or cooking at a simmer. All-aluminum pots are best for more delicate cooking, especially those with the thickest bottoms. Like the proverbial Walmart aluminum grease pot, there are tons of aluminum pots out there already, for cheap. Time for a market survey of relatively light ones of small size. Be forewarned, though, you CAN NOT leave an empty thin-walled Al pot on a running stove.

Edited to respond to the wok thought: Woks are thin, and could be Ti, IF you use it like a wok: stir or shake the food around continuously and use oil to help conduct heat from the metal to the food. Otherwise, it too would be for boiling water. But, as mentioned above, with a good handle and constant attention, you can use any thin-walled pot like a wok: add some oil and keep it moving.