Rain jackets and rain pants

Actually, the lower half of your body doesn't sweat any where to the degree of your torso. Rain jacket breathability is far more crucial. The Reed Pants breathe a little—and while not quite as comfortable as cruising around in your trailpants, they actually do quite well. Plus they are quite light, especially for the $. Durable alternatives that are more breathable than the Reed's are going to set you back considerably more.

People other than me will have to comment on the Virga—I haven't used it, but, I agree, it sounds like a great value.

I own a pair of Reed pants and I used to own a Virga. I'll admit that the Reed pants don't breath all that well, but I usually only use them in the cooler months when it isn't as important. I don't care if my legs get wet when it rains in the summer so I just leave them at home.

If you are worried about the breathability of the Reed pants, then you should stay away from the Virga, as they are made out of the same material.

The Golite Gammut might be a better choice if you are on a budget. It is a $20 more and 3 oz heavier, but it is probably more breathable. Usually Breathability = $$$.

What about the patagonia rainshadow pants? I found a good deal on them and they seem to be fairly lightweight. Has anyone had any experience with these?

Jessen is right. Breathability = $$$. I bit the bullet and bought an eVent ID rain jacket. The difference between that jacket and my now-rejected Precip is remarkable. Also, I took a chance on Golite's Paradox pants that are made of something new called trinity fabric. They are all-day pants that are waterproof and breathable. As it turns out, they really are. I live and hike in the Pacific Northwest, so it has usually just rained, is raining, or is going to rain. They're lightweight and very comfortable, although the sizing runs a bit small. I also wish the pants had cargo pockets. I've been wearing them for two months, in rainy weather, snowy weather, and weather that actually turned out to be fine so I didn't need the waterproofness from brush or rain, and they've been very comfortable. Definitely worth looking into.

I have Cabela's Rainy River PacLite Gore-Tex rain parka and pants. PacLite is Gore-tex's most breathable laminate to date.

Cabela's prices are amazing. Around $89. for each garment. ($89. for my Tall jacket B/C I wanted it to cover my butt.)

The parka has no pit zips but the large slash chest pockets serve as vents B/C they have mesh linings. MANY nice details like captive hood drawstrings so they don't whip your face in a wind and double zipper flaps.

These parkas also come in WOMENS' style front zip & womens'colors.

Bass Pro Shops sell a similar setup.

Eric

The GoLite Virga weighs 9 oz. Can't remember for sure, but I think the Cabela's are on the heavy side???

Yeah, Ben, Cabela's may weigh a bit more but are certainly not on the "heavy" side. Less features, for me, means minimalist comfort AND paying more for less.

To satisfy your curiosity Ben, the parka (large, tall)weighs 15.7 oz on my digital scale. The pants Med.) weigh 10.7 oz. How many lightweight, WPB manufacturers even OFFER different lengths of parkas?? Especially at that price?

To me it's a good combination of features, reasonable weight, AND value for the money. I could have saved a few ounces in a large reg. length parka. Not worth the lack of (butt) coverage.

Eric
BTW, what is the GOLITE parka made from? Will it be as durable as the PacLite parkas?

As far as rain pants go, should I go with the Golite Reeds or the Patagonia Rainshadows?

They both are quality garments. Depends on your goals. The Reed is lighter by 3 oz. The Rainshadow may breathe a bit better and is made of a little bit tougher fabric. I personally, have been pleased a little more by Patagonia's quality and sizing over Golite.

Hey Eric,

If it's durable, we don't have an excuse to buy the next new (lighter) model.

Pam

Derek, my advice is go for Integral Designs eVENT, a North Face DIAD set, or Redledge Thunderlight set.. in that order of $$$ and breathability. Ive used all those choices.

The best were the eVENT jackets, of which I've owned two. There is no comparison with older fabrics like goretex or PU nylon. Remember, those fabrics do not actually transmit vapor, water must condense on the inner surface, soak through to the outer layer, then evaporate..
With eVENT, my layers stayed bone dry while I was perspiring and I could not overwhelm the vapor transmission rate of the eVENT fabric. Unfortunately one jacket was much too big, one was much too small (got them both used), so I had to sell them.

For now I am using a North Face D.I.A.D. and full-zip DIAD pants in the 9 coldest months. In the 3 warmest months I replace the pants with light windpants (Montbell); since I dont really care if my legs and nylon (REI Sahara) pants get wet.

The Redledge Thunderlight sets are a great value; my GF and I both used these sets before trading up.

Derek,

I went with a Virga because it was inexpensive (mine cost $40 at a Golite warehouse sale) and light (8.4 oz for size medium).

The Virga is waterproof but probably at the less breathable end of the spectrum. Being aware of this, I moderate my exertion level and/or keep the zipper part way open when using it. Up to now, I've only used it in cooler weather and haven't overwhelmed it with internal moisture. I'm looking forward to seeing how it does in warmer weather.

In Colorado, it's relatively rare that we get day upon day of continuous rain. So most of the time the Virga is in my pack. If I had to face those conditions, I would probably spring for an eVENT jacket.

For my last couple of trips, I combined the Virga with Golite Whim pants. These pants are water resistant, reasonably breathable, and surprisingly tough for their weight. My total weight for the combo is 11.8 oz.

Bret,
What's this …"water must soak through the inner surface & evaporate on the outer surface" balderdash???

Ever see Gore's famous hot water demo? A jar of hot water covered W/ Gore-Tex, held on by a rubber band. Placed in a cold room the steam from the hot water EVAPORATES THROUGH the Gore-Tex. Then the jar is turned upside down & no water comes through the Gore-Tex. I've had frost form on the outer shell of my Gore-Tex mountain parka at -20 F. Inside was dry to the touch!

eVent IS more breathable than Gore-Tex (B/C there's no PU coating on its PTFE scrim)but BOTH do let vapor pass through their laminate.
Eric

Pamela:

Don't ever let 'durable' stop you from buying the next new (lighter) model. It's why we have closets in our homes! :)

Eric:

Thanks for the info. I'm sure it'll help OP make his decision.

We all have our own "sweet spots" and "ideal balance points". Unfortunately, more often than we like, what we think of as 'ideal' changes with the next new thing.

Eric,
Sorry, its true; water can not evaporate through goretex because there is a solid PU layer sandwiched inside. Here in BPL land we learn many truths which sales and marketing departments had previously concealed from us to blind us from the truth.
Coming to BPL is a little like Neo meeting Morpheus in The Matrix. If you take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever the sales and marketing departments want you to believe about goretex and many other technologies. If you take the red pill (notice the BPL logo is red..) you stay in BPL Wonderland and see how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

"Are you aware that this is NOT how Gore-Tex and most polyurethane coatings really work?"

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00316.html

LOL. Good point Ben. That's what friends are for right? To justify having new gear so we can 'loan' them our old!

Pam

Brett:

Be advised that MontBell's Breeze Dry Tec is similar to eVENT in that both have dispensed away with the PU coating. With both, vapor can pass through the laminate directly, without need to condense into liquid first.

Being the resident MontBell pimp that you are… I am surprised you still haven't given the Peak Shell jacket a try! :)

Pam:

Yes, that's what friends are for, indeed.

I didn't know that about Dry Tec. But I stand by the description as valid for all goretex variants.
Dont tempt me with the MB jacket, it is oh so light, and smooth.. and..

Brett — From MB website:

Breeze Dry-Tec is an innovative new MontBell waterproof/breathable material, and one of the only air-permeable waterproof fabrics available today. Waterproof/breathable materials generally consist of a micro-porous laminate with a non-porous polyurethane coating. This means that all vapors that will pass through the fabric must first be absorbed by and passed through the polyurethane coating and then through the micro-porous laminate and out of the jacket.

With Breeze Dry-Tec, MontBell was able to manipulate the size and consistency of the pores, eliminating the non-porous coating and drastically increase the ventilation of the material. In fact, tests indicate that Breeze Dry-Tec is more than twice as breathable as many of its competitors while maintaining a high level of weatherproofing.

Ben,
I just looked up the Breathability of these two fabrics; eVENT is quoted in numerous places as 10 to 12,000 g/m2/24hrs, while Montbell claims 15k!
And it's cheaper than the Integral Designs jacket, and has the pit zips the ID does not (for an extra ounce penalty). Still light at 11 oz.
I think I know where I'm going after work tomorrow.. Shibuya Montbell to take a look at the Peak Shell.
The pimp got pimp'd!

The following comparison uses JIS L 1099 B for both tests. The Montbell number is from page 10 of their catalog.

Breeze-Tec…..15,000
eVENT EV121…..21,997

The numbers only indicate performance at a specific temp/humidity differential point. My understanding is that Goretex performance degrades rapidly as the temp/humidity differential decreases between the inside and the outside of the jacket. eVENT and MontBell's Breeze Dry Tec (BDT) laminate work well over a wider range of temp/humidity differential between inside and out.

Verber — the wp/b gear 'whor' par excellence — has eVENT jacket, MB's Peak Shell jacket (BDT laminate), and a host of Goretex jackets as well. Summarizing his posts from the past:

1. Both eVENT and BDT are much more breathable than any of the Goretex models.

2. eVENT is slightly more breathable than BDT.

If maximum breathability is paramount, I would go for eVENT — but would want one with decent venting options — regardless of Integral Designs' claim that eVENT is "so breathable" that venting isn't needed. Hog wash.

But eVENT is relatively expensive and heavy. I like MB's Peak Shell jacket — viewing it as an artful balance of high breathability performance, extensive features including super long pit zips, decent pricing (cheaper than most eVENT and Goretex jackets), and very light weight (lighter than most all eVENT and Goretex jackets, even with all the features).

After participating in a thread similar to this about six months ago, I bought the MB Peak jacket and liked it a lot. Shortly afterwards, I happened luckily onto Brett's posting of his eVent ID jacket that was too small for him (I think it was about 5 minutes after he posted it). After thinking about it for about half a second, I contacted him and was able to buy it. My subjective opinion, based on 3-4 months of experience wearing them in the north cascades, is the ID eVent jacket breathes better than even the Peak, even without the pitzips. I'm getting rid of my Precip, but I'm keeping the Peak for backup, whatever that means. However, I am also seriously thinking of installing pitzips in the eVent jacket.