3rd Annual BPL Spring Run -Zion Training Thread

Ran a few times this week (x4 in total) and rode the singlespeed twice, focused mainly on effort over distance. My short runs early in the week were all up a route with nearly 1000' of vertical in 1.5 miles, steep and anaerobic inducing if you're not careful. I run the downhill hard back to the car for the turnover. Haven't been too keen on getting out for very long the last two weeks, so mixing it up has been enjoyable at the moment.

Yesterday morning I ran a 10 mile tempo on a pancake flat access road at about 7:40 min/mile and it hurt like hell, haven't felt that in some time! Not sure that it benefits me much for Zion, but we're still 5 months out.

I have to bail on a R2R2R trip in two weeks that a few of us here were planning. I can't go into it half hearted with only fair fitness at this point. I thought I would be cruising after Mt. Taylor 50K but I underestimated the recovery time and the brief time for getting back into a routine before Nov. 9. This change in plans has me reeling all the more for Zion in April.

For those of you strength training, what specifically are you doing and how does it compliment your running? This is something I want to incorporate with more specificity over the next few months. My typical weekly strength sessions consist of some bench and pushups, pull ups, chin ups, overhead presses with the 45lb. plate, and some simple core work with the 45lb. plate. Nothing special.

Eugene, I could send you some circuits that I like a lot. I get most of my strength oriented training via Ross Enamait at Ross Training. I like his style quite a bit, pretty much an old-school boxing trainer. Quick, intense, no frills workouts that are primarily done with bodyweight and/or homemade equipment.

A sample circuit:
20 pushups
10 pullups
30 bodyweight squats
10 bodyweight rows (I do these on homemade rings/TRX style straps)
20 bridges/hip raises
Do entire circuit as fast as possible, no rest between exercises.
Do entire circuit 3-5 times, with 2 minutes rest in between each circuit.

They’re good, fast workouts that can be tacked onto the end of a run, bike, or surf session as warmup.

He’s got lots of free stuff on his site. I’ve purchased two of his ebooks and like them as well.

I do something pretty close to Craig's workout on one day- I vary the reps/sets but always include pushups, pullups, squats, situps at a minimum-the other day is a little more traditional weight training- bench, squats, cleans w/ some pullups/chinups/situps/dips mixed in- the reps are higher and weights lower than what I used to lift years ago

October-December is typically my down time of year for running. (These Socal winters are brutal). I'm lucky to get 25 miles a week right now and haven't done a 20+ miler in 5 weeks.
Lots of strength training though, in the form of house remodeling, upper body is getting a great workout with concrete work, brick work, stucco, wallboard, plaster, painting, etc.
Need to do more stretching though, will try and restart that this week.

nm

Excuse me, we'll call it exercise then.

Most runners are not trying to look like GI Joe action figures Dave. We've already beat this one to death.

nm

"So Craig, why do you 'exercise' with resistance circuits if you already run?"

Strength.

nm

We're having major semantics issues here Dave.

http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/strengthtraining.html

nm

The best American distance runner does minimal strength training. He does spend time in the weight room…

Rupp and Salazar in the weight room

He also has an underwater anti-gravity chamber. You want to purchase mine?

:)

I've been stacking wood this week. Not sure what definition that falls under, but it makes me sore. So I'm counting it as "something"…

doing body-weight "exercises" will definitely make you stronger, doing lower rep/higher weight exercises will definitely make you even stronger yet

obviously depends on one's goals; as this thread is discussing training for a 50 mile trail run, I'd personally lean towards higher rep/lower weight "exercises"

here's a "fun" workout to give a go- it's a crossfit workout called "Murph" (named after a fallen Navy SEAL)- it's a timed workout- hit the stopwatch and run 1 mile, then do 100 pullups, 200 pushups, 300 bodyweight squats, run another mile and hit the stop watch again

you can partition the pullups/pushups/squats in any arrangement you want- I broke mine into 20 sets of 5 pullups/20 pushups/30 squats

it's a really tough workout (at least it was for me!) 41:16 was my time the last time I tried it

I just finished a 10K of mixed road and trail (about 50/50, relatively flat). 1:00:16 (about 9:45/mile…slow)

followed by:

20 pushups
8 bodyweight rows
25 squats
10 bridges/hip raises (feet on ball)
8 pike presses
2 minutes rest
Repeat X3

followed by

10 minutes stretching

Tomorrow I plan on running a mountain (5.75 miles trail, 1700' gain) and doing a fast ab workout afterwards).
Ab workout:
10 crunches
20 lying hip swings
plank for time
X3 sets

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I've seen that SEAL workout Mike (or at least something similar)….it looks disgusting. I'm afraid to even try it.

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It's raining and ocean conditions are terrible….meaning it should be a good running week for me!!!

nm

"it's a really tough workout (at least it was for me!) 41:16 was my time the last time I tried it"

Good time! I'm going to try and beat it though … I'm going for 41 hours even….

You got this Doug!

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So Dave, would you say that doing the higher reps is a waste of time when one could instead lift heavier and do fewer reps for more gain (at least in the short term?

It seems to me that we're all defining things differently. When a lot of surfers, runners, etc. that I know talk about "strength" training, most of the time they're actually talking about increasing endurance, not total power output. So if we take your definition, you're right in that regard. I see what you're talking about when comparing "strength" training vs. exercise or endurance training.

So, from the perspective of a runner or surfer (or whatever) that wants to simply maintain overall fitness and correct imbalances that come from the sport of choice (runners obviously don't build much upper body strength and surfers don't build the most powerful legs), do you think time would be better spent doing low reps/high resistance (6-10, near failure on last rep) vs. high reps, low resistance?

The problem as I see it: there has to be an end point to strength building or we're now talking bodybuilding/competitive weightlifting and some really impractical gains? (i.e., if a surfer were to continually increase leg press weight for an entire year, and the year after that, they'd likely end up with legs that were bigger than functional for their sport) A certain amount of strength is never going to hurt anyone…but there is a logical endpoint for any given sport. (I can tell you right now I'm too big to be a good distance runner, not just body fat, but muscle as well. My forearms are the size of a lot of skinny runner's calves.)

I think what we're all actually debating is the question of when is enough enough? And once that point is reached, isn't the goal simply maintenance and endurance, not a continuing increase in strength- which also brings unneeded size to many sports.

my take is that it wouldn't be counter productive to do a little of both- one day I exclusively do higher rep body-weight exercises (typically Monday), the next day (typically Friday) my strength training is done mostly w/ weights in the 8-12 rep range

what I've let go was the very low rep/higher weight training that I used to do-while it was certainly fun and satisfying to load 315 # on the bench, with running and hiking being my primary "sports" I don't see myself going that route again- not to mention the risk of injury tended to go up w/ the increases in weight

I certainly don't begrudge someone lifting heavy and I still admire the time and effort it takes someone to get there, just not practical at this juncture in my life

nm

nm

well … since the Zion training thread has now been hijacked maybe someone could start a new one that's actually about running, and more in line with how the RRR training thread went.

nm

In the words of one R.J. Burgandy-

Well, that escalated quickly.

we got 5-7″ of the white stuff, which has melted here and there creating some mixed ice/snow conditions- got the screws out last night to ready my shoes :)