3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure

…just noticed this thread. I'm hopeful I can join y'all but won't know for sure for a few weeks. It would be great to run with all of you again.

BB

sounds good :)

I'd like to go just to hike and make sure the beer is cold in the coolers. Haven't been to Zion since I was a kid. Dave W. are you driving or flying?!

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Logistics discussion moved from Zion Training thread.

Continue Logistics discussion here.

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Dave T. – keeping beer cold is an important job.

from what Mike S said in the other thread, it definitely sounds worth investigating the east entrance site

we may have enough non-running folk (my buddies wife will be one for sure) that we may be able to forego a paid shuttle to the start (ala Joshua Tree)

we should also be able to leave a vehicle (or two) at/near the Grotto to accommodate anyone stopping there

also I don't know if this will impact available sites, but I was told this morning that the Zion 100 is the same weekend we are looking at- I know they aren't in the park, but am assuming they'll be close????

"we may have enough non-running folk (my buddies wife will be one for sure) that we may be able to forego a paid shuttle to the start (ala Joshua Tree)"

If I don't slow down on the surfing and pick up on the running, I'm going to be one of them.

But tending the beer doesn't sound half bad. Can anyone recommend a hammock?

The Zion 100 is the same weekend but outside the park.
This race is centered in the town of Virgin which is about 10 miles west of the west park entrance and Watchman campground.
Yes runners will be staying in Springdale for the race.
Yes there may be runners camping at Watchman campground for the race.
No, none of their race course will be on any of the trails we will run on.
the races (100m, 100k, 50k) will be on Friday & Saturday (I think racing is not allowed on Sunday in Utah).

I do not think a car can be left at the Grotto because this will be bus only season on the scenic road.

I am not sure which camping option I would prefer, not enough info yet for my vote.

You do realize that camping at the east entrance effectively makes this a 49 mile run, since its apparently one mile to camping from the trailhead, and who's gonna pick up a runner just for one mile.

Craig – I'm not sure if we should kick you in the butt, or tuck you in (to your hammock).

just did a quick check of Watchman camp site availability.
its filling up.

I have not checked the private campground at the finish line, but I think there are not many sites.

We should probably try and get an estimate of how many are coming,
decide which camp site we prefer,
and make a reservation soon.

Art- I'm having no luck making contact w/ the camp at the East end- I've tried their online reservation, their toll free telephone # and just this week their email contact- all to no avail

We might be better off going w/ Watchman???????- my best guess is 15 folks tops

you may want to try http://zionrv.com/ and see if you have any better luck

Mike

"But tending the beer doesn't sound half bad."

Tending beer sounds fully good!

Is that beer cold enough?

Is there enough beer in the cooler?

Is the variety in the cooler adequate, or should it be adjusted?

Should I have a beer?

Etc.

Mike – given your issues with contacting them I'm sort of in agreement about just going with Watchman. A bit of certainty and reliability is a good thing when you're traveling many miles.
also I get the feeling that half or more will not be seeing the finish line … either by opting for the short version or serving as beer guards.

Art- you're right, there were only two group sites left!

All- we're in at Watchman for Thursday 4/3 through Monday 4/7- it's group site E1- it has a minimum of 20, up to 40- a maximum of 8 vehicles (but has overflow parking nearby if we exceed that)

I reserved it for 20 folks (that's the minimum), if for some reason there is more I'm sure we can let them know; I'm pretty sure we won't be over 40

It's for tents only, don't think anyone is bringing a camper :)

Anywho it was $240 total, I figure we can square up once we all get there.

Woohoo!

Mike

thanks Mike – sounds reasonable.

Thanks Mike. I could paypal you or mail a check over if you need it now. Otherwise we can handle it there.

I'm of the strong opinion that camping down in the valley is better. It may be more crowded, but the private campground up at the east rim is really nothing to speak of.

So now we need shuttle logistics from the east rim at the end.

There is a decent sized dirt turnout there and a picnic table. It's a fine place to wait. Leave a few cars there with chairs, coolers, changes of clothes and we should be good.

We could arrange cutoffs for different cars; i.e. one that leaves after 11 hours, one after 13, etc. so the fastest finishers aren't waiting there for the slowest all evening.

From what I remember, the shuttle can pick us up at the east rim in the morning and then drive us out to Lee's pass….or our own drivers can do it. That can be determined as we get closer and get a car count.

good ideas Craig.

on run day … given that this is slightly more remote than GC-RRR, it would be great if we could enlist a volunteer to do one or two checkpoints along the route.

at mile 14.1 the route crosses the road, a water drop and checkpoint would be easy here.

at mile 22.5 the route comes very close to the road and Lava Point picnic area.
a second water drop and checkpoint could be made here.

at mile 36.7 each runner must make the big decision …

these are not absolutely necessary, since there is water on route at various places, but a check in point would help gauge the who and when for the 48 mile finish, and make it easier to track down anyone who decides to go astray.

if we can't find a volunteer, I guess everyone's on their own.

I plan on sweeping the course.

Unless dropping out, as long as nobody gets lost or behind me, I can carry the keys for the final car. If anyone is ahead of me and dropping, maybe we can arrange some sort of message; a trail blaze ribbon with a note, etc.

agreed- good ideas

Craig do you want to contact the shuttle folks and see if they are willing to take us to Lee's Pass early? We may be able to do this w/ our non-runners which obviously would be cheaper and we can pick our exact time to leave.

Looks like sunrise for the 5th is 7:12 A, sunset 7:57 P- wouldn't hurt us to be on the trail around 6:30 (or earlier w/ headlamps)

it's roughly 45 miles from Watchman to Lee's Pass trailhead, probably an hour drive

yes, 6:30 or even 6:00am start.
the first few miles are the least interesting, would like as much daylight as possible for the last part.

Just surprised my wife with a V-day trip to Zion (from Alaska). No ultras were run, but it was a lovely trip. The Scenic Drive was very busy and all parking areas were overflowing, but (1) it the end of the non-shuttle season as visitation ramps up, (2) it was a three-day weekend and a lot of college students were traveling as large groups, and (3) it was the no-admission-fee weekend for the NPS. it was easy to see why they require shuttle use in the Spring through Fall. Anyway, I saw a few logistical items from the training thread I could answer:

"it seems we will just miss being able to drive private vehicles to the Grotto to pick up those who may stop there (spring 2014 schedule not out yet)." -Art Jan 27. What I saw in the Spring version of their newspaper handout is March 31 is the last day for private vehicles. We stayed at the Zion Lodge and they said once shuttle-only access starts, Lodge guests are given a red pass that lets them drive up to the Lodge (one mile short of The Grotto). So if anyone were staying at The Lodge, that would almost help. But what you'd really like is a sag wagon AT The Grotto, not a mile down the road. You'd probably need a Handicap sticker to do that. Maybe a non-runner could hand at The Grotto with checklist of runners, some hot drinks and warm coats?

"does anyone know how much time it takes to drive from the East end (potential camp) to the road junction inside the park on the scenic road. time is more relevant here than miles."

We did the reverse on Saturday – The Lodge on the Scenic Drive to the Taylor creek Trailhead on Kolob Canyon Road (one mile down the road from the Lee Pass Trailhead). I didn't time it but would estimate it at 60 +/-5 minutes in light traffic. April is little more towards peak, but it wouldn't be a 3-day weekend like we had.

"it's roughly 45 miles from Watchman to Lee's Pass trailhead, probably an hour drive"

I get 41 miles, and, yeah, right about an hour in shuttle van.

"Homing pigeons?"

With AT&T as a carrier, we had no service along the Zion Canyon Scenic Drive (the road to The Grotto) but had decent reception from Angel's Landing on the rim. The Lodge had wifi but for guests only. Tough terrain for radio use.

I'll be back in Zion, certainly the Scenic Drive Portion, maybe more of the Park in mid-March. Let me know if there's any thing I can do or check for you guys. Seems too early to lay in water caches, but I'd be game to do so.

Edited to respond to: "I can carry the keys for the final car."

I'm a big fan of leaving keys on the car (if you need to use my RAV4 at an Alaskan trailhead, the keys are in at the bottom of the coil spring at the LF wheel (closest to the driver)). You can't see a key there unless you are really looking, but it is easy to pull out and even to find in the dark. Everyone has to remember to not drive away without Craig, but if he bails at the Grotto or any number of other outcomes; someone else might need to move that car. Someone might just want to get into the car to stay warm or cool or get it comfortable for Sweeper Craig's arrival. Tape a note to the steering wheel: "Sweeper's Car. Remember to bring Craig back with you."

thanks David.

if you're going again, I'll try and think of some things you could check on.

yeah too early for water caches, maybe the day before for them.

I've always had a remote chance of making it that weekend (24,000 miles so far this year is already a lot of flying and I'll be coming off a weeklong family vacation) and I'd be hiker for only 20 miles or so. But I could shuttle people around or schlep water into a cache location. I'll let you know if I can commit to that – I need to wait to see how some work scheduling shakes out.

great – hope you can make it.

David- thanks for the recon info! Would be great to see you if you can make it

Mike

David, Thanks for doing that legwork! And thanks to everyone who has been chipping away at the logistics, as I have done nothing to contribute on that end.

If you guys will bear with me for a second, I just want to make sure I've got my head wrapped around this and that I'm current on the plan since I've been absent of the forum lately…

– Staying at Watchman Camp (Thanks Mike, let me know how to cover my part)
– Running West to East
– Start is at Lee's Pass
– Finish is at the East Entrance via East Rim Trail
– Bailout is at the Grotto

? There are a few places to drop water (& food?) listed by Art, what do they coincide with on the map?
? Beta plan is to leave vehicles at the Grotto for those who exit there?
? Beta plan is to hire shuttle to get us to the west side early in the morning?
? Alternate beta plan is to use non-running drivers for early morning transport?

David's suggestion of finding some non-running volunteers to post up at the bailout to provide aide as runners check in is a good idea. Maybe they can show up at some pre-determined time and hang until all have checked in. Would be nice to devise some simple way of keeping track of who has checked in also, just for clarity of knowing who has pressed onto the finish and who has yet to arrive at the bailout point.