Canister Stove Hazard?

Greg,

I deliberately tested a remote canister stove that was not designed to be inverted and it was fine, it worked very well.

I'm asking about a burn head attached directly to a canister, that inadvertently gets knocked over.

Does it go into "fire ball mode" immediately, or does one have time to picked up the stove and set it upright, without consequence?

My apologies, I misread your post.

Yes it does, big, yellow flame. For extra hazard, did it while eating pizza, in the house even. Used my Micro Rocket. It might be bigger if a stove with a preheat loop is used, allowing the fuel to be fully vaporized first.
Duane

Duane,
You're obviously still here (maybe minus some hair)…

What where you able to do to remedy the situation?

Hi Greg

Well, you have what is called an 'OOPS' moment. :-)

Yes, liquid fuel will try to reach the jet and the burner, but it will be limited by the jet size and the needle valve. So yes, you will get a bit of a fireball.

However, in practice, it may not be quite that bad. The jet will be hot, and the burner head will be very hot, so the fuel is likely to vaporise, somewhere along the line. If you are really quick and the stove was quite hot (and you are lucky), all you might get is a bit of a sputter, a brief fireball, and maybe set something alight around the stove.

I would not say 'ample opportunity' for recovery, but 'some opportunity'.

Cheers

I keep thinking about this when the reference is made to the guy who started the fire with the alky stove near Fort Collins, CO, last year. The story is he was using his alky stove and turned around to find a fire started. If you start a fire with ANY stove operating normally, you'd have to think serious user error. Like kicking over a stove. I own a couple of canister stoves and more than a few alky stoves. If you kick an alky stove over into the dry grass or a Pocket Rocket into the same dry grass, I'd think the canister stove would be worse. It's basically a torch. You could probably weld with it. Obviously, neither scenario would be good. But which is the lesser of two evils?

"But which is the lesser of two evils?"

Time for an experiment!

Jerry, you better don some cuben fiber/Nomex gloves.

–B.G.–

I didn't say I was going to do the experiment.

I'm trying to stimulate someone else to do it : )

>"It's basically a torch. You could probably weld with it. "

Er, no.

But you can solder or braze with it.

How I know that involves a dirt road in Mexico, a low oil pan, and a strong desire to get home.

Time for a trip to the river bar with a stove and a camera,

"Time for a trip to the river bar with a stove and a camera"

That's what I'm talking about, great idea Ken, I want to see the results

Actually, you could hold it in your hand. Quickly turn it sideways and see what happens. If you don't like what's happening, turn it back to normal position.

It's not like it'll immediately explode in your hand. If it behaved like that, then there would be occasional explosions reported.

MSR Micro Rocket, flairs up, flame thrower pattern (straight out), high, med, simmer mode. Burner head shape causes this?
Snow Peak Giga Power GS-100, flairs up, low, flat (spreading) pattern at all speeds. Singed hair on my hand during this test.
Coleman Exponent F1, flares at high, med setting, puffs at a simmer. Highest btu of stoves tested.
MSR Super Fly, flares out badly in all modes, the most dangerous of the test, maybe due to its large burner head.
MSR Rapidfire, remote canister stove, no change in inverted mode, has the generator, basically a Whisperlite with the fuel line for canister fuel. Safest stove tested.

Fuel used was a barely used SP Giga Power canister at mid 50F temp, tested inside at 60F. Stoves were allowed to simmer for a minute before testing. Have fun bping.
Duane

Great! Thanks!

What was your test? Light stove normally, then turn sideways?

How long was it sideways?

Did you then grab stove and turn it right side up?

If you were using stove in real world and it accidentally got knocked over, would it be easy to just grab it and turn it right side up again?

Do you think it could start a wild fire?

Do you think there's any chance it would explode?

Jerry, I don't see how they can explode. I've had white gas stoves have their fuel boiling and they vented as they were designed to do via the SRV (safety relief valve), causing a small flame at that location. You would need to make sure the stove is securely screwed onto the canister. If the canister was punctured, that would be another issue.
After warming up a minute, I only inverted the stoves long enough to get the desired effect, a test for flare ups. I think if a stove is tipped over, you could grab the end of the canister and right the stove, being careful of the flames location. I think more care around a stove is more important, going by the Forest Service guidelines of clearing a space around the stoves use area, then it would be less of an issue starting a fire.
I should correct my statement regarding the Coleman F1 having the highest btu, just going by the small, canister type stoves, the Super Fly and Rapidfire with their larger burner heads may have more.
Duane

Thanks!

Sounds like tipping over an upright canister stove is a non issue

Although you should always keep an eye on it and prepare to turn it off or whatever

I have a Coleman F1. It started leaking fuel around the stove to canister connection. Starts flaming up so you have to quickly blow it out and tighten it. And when it got cold, the metal contracted so it started leaking so it would be empty in the morning.

Duane: Thanks for doing the experiment and posting the results.

"Singed hair on my hand during this test."

That's how you know you're doing real science!

"Singed hair on my hand during this test."

That's how you know you're doing real science!

No – singed eyebrows : )

Hi Duane

Your tests are very interesting. I have to confess that such an obvious test had not occurred to me!

I note you allowed the stove to simmer one minute in each case – very good.

Not stated however was the speed of recovery. OK, invert canister, get mini-fireball, tip back upright. How long to recovery back to normal burn in each case? I suspect just a few seconds, but actual experimental data would be great.

Cheers

Duane,
Nice Work!
If BPL ever awards medals, yours will be for "Bravery Under Fire".

I'm happy that your "pizza experience" gave you the confidence to forge ahead with a five stove test. It's very good to know that in most circumstances recovery seems straight forward, and that death is not imminent. The major issue seems to be what might be on the receiving end of the burner head flare.

Thank you.

I keep a pair of welder's leather gloves around. Long, fireproof, and insulated, they are only about $8 at Harbor Freight. They are great for this kind of work. And also great if you own a wood stove.

Duane,

I have a new career for you — parachute test pilot :)

Thanks Nick, I have your back too! :) I'm single and take some chances now and then.

Recovery time was almost immediate. I'm sure more tests would be nice, I had some concerns over the fuel canister cooling off in-between tests.
Well, after camping last night, off for an overnighter in the Bucks Lake Wilderness, using the Rapidfire instead of my Firefly to cook some spaghetti. Taking along a 8R I just received from Ken to heat the sauce with and for cereal and coffee water in the AM.
The stove that vented thru the SRV on me, was my old embossed Optimus 8, but only after heating up two pots of water to treat for drinking. Normally, it would not have been run that long. The SRV did what it was designed for.
Duane