Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie

[Delmar O’Donnell]

>With a pot lifter I would have to find another place to store it and it wouldnt be self contained at that point. My ideal cookset will nest entirely in the pot…

Say what now? I put my pot lifter in the pot, next to the SuperCat stove, the windscreen, the lighter, and sometimes even a fuel bottle if it's a short trip.

BTW, a common UL mod is to trim your pot lifter to length preference. It's soft aluminum. I've seen two-inch lifters. People who carry multi-tools just use pliers.

But, do as you wish, I understand not wanting a separate lifting tool.

Lifters do have upsides: (1) makes sliding into the cozy easy, no obstructions. (2) No rivets or welds on the pot. (3) No need to put a notch into your windscreen to make room for the attached handles.

[Troy Ammons]

You might want to check this out.

$100 will save you 3# if you wait to upgrade some of the smaller stuff.
Reason for the Montbell #3 bag is so you can get a left and right zip and connect them
together.

If you cant afford all of it get a junker $50 pack then upgrade to an Arc later.

All the little stuff you can add as you go.

The big expense is really going to be getting your GF set up too.

I added some things you missed. A bit over a pound and when you start packing for real that will grow. Things I did not list you probably need to carry some extra cordage too like the SUL Zpacks stuff, cell phone and a few other things I did not think of like hiking poles etc. According to your current list, I would guess in reality you will end up at about 12# base and maybe more with the GF in tow.

Weights of the last 3 can vary.

Also there are other manuf like bearpaw for one that sells cuben shelters, IE you could go with his cuben shaped tarp and a net tent and ditch the net when solo in colder weather.

[I’m Joe]

Every time I get new suggestions the total cost keeps creeping up. It's gotten to the point where I need to remind myself of my original goal of remaining cheapish while staying light and not making too many sacrifices. I don't see the point in spending $400 on a UL double tent when I'm trying to keep close to $750. I understand that mean I might not having the lightest setup on the trail but that isn't my goal. I'm trying to find the setup for the new guy that gets the best bang for the buck. So yeah I might have an overkill 20dF quilt in the summer but I won't have to spend any extra when I need something in the shoulder months. Again, I can't justify $275 on a pack with my budget goals but I can still be on the upper end of ultralight with a $110 pack. So yeah I can save 3 pounds and only spend an extra $100 but it also means that I can't hit the trail in early April without being forced to spend money on another sleeping system. I'm also confused on the suggestion to buy a junker pack and then upgrade later. I'd be afraid that may risk discomfort and put a bad taste in my mouth for the whole experience. I'd much rather but decent but not great stuff and then sell and upgrade along the way. It allows me to get into ultralight backpacking now, get a feel for where I think I can best spend my money on upgrades in the future, and not wait an extra season because I can't afford a the really nice gear now.

Looking at your suggestions for the the things I missed I think that some tweaking can be made there. The double rainbow comes with stakes so those can be removed. I'm not going to need a pack cover since I'm shoving most things in the compactor bag. As for the medical/emergency gear I think I can keep that under 4oz looking at some other people's lists. And 7oz for toiletries sounds like a lot too. I think I can keep it under 5 without much effort.

I agree about ditching the second flashlight. That was something I was unsure of in case I ever needed to night hike. Forgot the cellphone weight so add 5oz as well. I won't be using hiking poles so we can keep that off the list. I need to finish my list but I think I can stay decently below 12lbs maybe below 11lbs… I dunno. More tweaking to do.

[Troy Ammons]

Trust me, you need a pack cover or wear an extended poncho.
First time out in the rain without one and you will know why.

I was going by your total on your original list of $1085 but $750 is along ways from that in terms of UL gear, but what I will say in general is buy the best and lightest big 3 you can afford. The DR is a great tent, but just not for soloing if you want to go UL, IE under a real 10#.

I would probably just start buying top shelf used gear and or MYOG what you can and cheap out on the little things that are easy to upgrade later. Your current big 3 will set you back $600 now and you will probably sell 2/3ds of it next year and buy lighter like we all have.

Also as an FYI the only montbell #3 that comes in L + R zip is the UL SS down hugger if you are interested in one of those.

What you are trying to do IE under 10# on $750 is not easy.
12# however is pretty easy to hit on a budget and 12# is not that bad, IE for you, 3 days, 6# of food, 4# of water and 22# total.

If you look at the loner video #20, I bet he does not have much over $850 in his 9# setup, but he bought some of that used.

So for a 12# base a pretty easy breakup is 6# for your big 4, IE tent with ground cloth, stakes etc, sleeping bag, pad and pack with TC bag and rain cover if any.
6# for everything else.

Right now your big 4 is at 7# so your base will most likely end up at 13# or so.

[I’m Joe]

So I did a little more tweaking. If I can keep my medical/emergency and toiletries under 8 oz I should be able to keep my base at 11 lbs. Unless I'm still missing something.

Also, if need be the ground sheet can double as a pack cover in a pinch.

Thanks again for all of the input.

[Dale Wambaugh]

"As for the compass I don't really have a major need for one. My navigation and map reading abilities should suffice. 6 years in the Marines makes for a lot of land nav practice."

You can use a bandana for so many things and use the savings on a basic baseplate compass. Your statement is a classic for getting in trouble in the backcountry. Map reading is great until it is dark or foggy. Buy a compass and use it.

[Troy Ammons]

Bored so long…LOL

Once again I will say invest in a pack cover or use a poncho. Its your call but
I would not use a ground cloth to cover my pack personally but you can try it.

Numbers look about right.

You will probably want a separate hood for your quilt. Thats a typical pice of quilt gear. You will not always want to wear a non zip-able Stoic under a 20dF quilt just for the hood.

If you are really going to be out in 20-30dF weather, in the future, you might want to consider a warmer jacket or an additional layer, and an additional cheap pad and carry the driducks full suit instead of just the top since it works as a layer. Also I am not sold on trash bag skirts. Too clingy for me when in shorts and my legs are wet. I prefer chaps but to each his own. You can try a bag out. Its certainly cheap enough.

Another item in cold weather is you might want to think about your base layer. I got some Indera Polypro johns on ebay (blue) that weigh about 7.5oz either top or bottom for XL and they are very warm. They are good enough and cheap enough that I actually want to pick up a couple more sets.

Just food for thought, I really like down gear a lot, but if I am going to be in rainy weather, which you may not, I prefer synthetics. They dont pack down or last when over compressed like down which is a huge negative, but in general these days a M50 climasheild insulated jacket and quilt can be as light as down gear and it dries in a fraction of the time that down does. I know you are not going on a thru hike, but take a climashield quilt or jacket, throw it into a drier for 15 minutes and its bone dry.

Case in point, I made a M90 climashield jacket with a removable hood from left over stuff I had laying around. A real PIA to make and it took forever but it was worth it in the long run. It has 2.5oz CS in the arms, 5oz CS in the chest, and 3.7oz in the hood and back and collar, and a very high ski jacket type collar. Super super warm and I used it as outer gear to hunt in all last year so I know its warm, you know sitting for hours. Good to a solid 25dF or so and I know my montbell down UL jacket would not even come close to that, but it is 9 oz vs 15 oz. The CS jacket is XL and cut very large and roomy and it weighs 15 oz. The hood weighs 2 oz.

I also have a M50 5oz apex Climashild quilt that I made that is good to 25-30dF, wide long that weighs 20 oz. Cost less than $100 to make.

I agree with above, take a compass.

[I’m Joe]

I've navigated in dark and foggy many times. Having a dedicated compass vs a mini compass on a whistle will not improve that situation. Get me within 15 degrees of north and I promise if you needed to get to a road you'll have no problem. If it is sunny out no one needs a compass they just need to learn the skills to navigate without one.

Also I don't see a problem with using a ground sheet as a pack cover. With a little shock cord it will do the job fine.

[Troy Ammons]

I know you are dead set against a pack cover but another options for keeping your pack dry is a parcho. Pattern from Quest. Cuben version weighs about 4 oz or the sil nylon version about 7.5 oz. Sil version cost about $50 for the MYOG kit.

Here is a typical list of stuff you can dig through and pick and choose.
Typically my every day stuff weighs in at about 4-7 oz without a trowel.
Someone here makes titanium trowels that are super light. A trowel is nice, but some prefer a stick, but for me its tough to actually dig a decent cathole with a stick. I would rather carry an extra ounce.

Emer gear about 4oz or so and you should have an emer space blanket of some sort with you. 1.5 oz cheap and good insurance and versatile.

Medical minimum is about 2 oz or so.

UTILITY GEAR AND EVERYDAY STUFF
Comb
Toothbrush
Tooth Powder
Floss
TP
SOAP
Micro insect repellant
Chapstick
Microlight
Map
Good Compass
Micro sunscreen
Hand Sanitizer – a must have and enough to be useful
Wet Wipes – Maybe
Trowel
Bandana

KEYCHAIN SURVIVAL – I carry this stuff on my keychain everyday anyway
Fire steel
GI can opener
Small Swiss Army knife
Micro led light
Button Compass

SURVIVAL KIT
1 non lubricated condom – LOL
4 aquamira tablets
12' of spiderwire cord
Brunton button compass
2 fish hooks
1 needle
1 xacto blade
2 Suture strip bandaids
5 wp matches
1 mag glass
1 wet fire tinder
Micro pencil
2 pc WP paper
Gorilla tape – small amount
2 rubber bands
Safety pin
Space Blanket
Micro Lighter
Howler whistle
Signal mirror
Micro flashlight

The full size Swiss Army knife with scissors and saw is a must have for me.
Way back when I used to only cook on fires and I have used only that saw to do everything I needed to do.

MEDICAL
1 MICRO tube krazy glue
aspirin
advil
diphen
psudoped
Imodium
3 suture strip bandaid
2 regular bandaids
2×2 surgical sponge
4×4 pad
Neosporin to go
Tape
Moleskin
Bad knee take an Ace wrap.

Alternatively if you are more hard core you could just take some duct tape
and a small quick clot in case to have a really bad injury, cut etc.

That said in a case like that you have to clean out the wound. They do make a quickclot that has silver so that should help until you can get somewhere.

I have a friend that was on the last day of a sailing trip, sliced some salami and nicked his finger. He washed his hand off in the ocean and thought he was good to go. Next day he woke up with black streaks up his arm and checked into the hospital and was in the hospital for 3 days on an IV drip. Hand sanitizer and some sort of antibiotic is a good thing too.

[Ken Thompson]

Troy, You take three compasses, and three microlights?

If you have soap and use it you don't need hand sanitizer. sanitizer sanitizes, but does not clean. Soap does both.

I do not take a survival kit with me backpacking. All that gear is redundant to what I have in my pack. We just stay close to each other.

Unless in Cholla country, I don't take a comb either. Good for pulling various cactus spines out of yourself.

Your friend rinsing off his wound in salt water was a bad choice. So unhealthily. Use soap. Rinse with copious amounts of clean, fresh water.. There is all kinds of crap in sea water. Can't drink it. Why wash with it? He's lucky.

Packcover. No thanks. I really like the big bag inside my pack technique. So much easier. Covers flappin' and snagging, blowing off, meh.

Joe, What about a SMD Lunar Duo?

[Link .]

You might enjoy watching these videos by Mike Clelland and this article by him on the fastest way to lose weight and cheaply.

[Troy Ammons]

That is just 3 lists of misc gear (or four) and I dont take it all.
Especially 2-3 days that stuff is not really needed, just throwing it out there.

Right no need for 3 compasses but 2 is good for me.
A button compass weighs next to nothing anyway.

Just lists I had on my computer from about 5+ years back so I dont take all that stuff and some of it is redundant. The stuff on my keychain is always with me and I do have a micro misc emer med pack that fits into a small altoids container that weighs 1 oz I think. That always goes. It has all the tiny stuff in it and comes in handy.

I prefer to keep my pack dry, but to each his own. A cover wont blow off if you set it up right.

Hand sanitizer is a good thing IMO and soap works too, but soap does not sanitize and sanitizer does not clean like soap. Still to each his own and I am sure after the OP's first few hikes he will figure out what works.

Yes bad choice by my friend but it happens. This was probably 25 years ago. It was not the ocean salt water or what was in it, it was bacteria from the salami.

[I’m Joe]

Wow. That is definitely not a 2-3 day list, at least not for me. I keep my hair short so no comb for me. I can pass on the floss for a short trip. If I'm bringing sun screen I'll leave the chapstick at home and just use the sunscreen instead. Leave the wet wipes at home and I can make do without a trowel. Your survival kit is way more that I'd ever bring. I might bring a few aquamira pills, an extra mini bic, and some gorilla tape. The rest I can do without. Your medical list is about what I'd have though. Nothing extravagant.

Ken, the Lunar Duo looks pretty comparable to the Double Rainbow but requires trekking poles/dedicated tent poles. I'll have to check it out a little more but I don't use trekking poles. Any reason you would choose it over the Double Rainbow?

Link, thanks for the links.

[Ken Thompson]

Better living space in the Duo for two.

[Troy Ammons]

Well yes that list was more of a thru hike list of stuff.

Floss is double duty for sewing repairs like your tent rain gear etc.
It weighs nothing.

All this stuff I have to have no matter what even a few days. In the past and mostly long ago, I have been/had totally wet, severe hypothermia, sick, diarrhea, totally wetted out down bag, tent nearly flooded, allergies on the trail, minor injuries, trapped in a nasty storm at 13k, etc etc, and all miserable – LOL and maybe thats why I carry what I do.

This is what every day stuff I take no matter what, but it does not have to weigh a lot.

UTILITY GEAR AND EVERYDAY STUFF
Toothbrush, Tooth Powder, Floss, TP, SOAP, Insect repellant (unless its cold)
Chapstick (Yeah can do without especially if you carry some vasoline cotton balls for fire starters)
Microlight, Map, Compass, Micro sunscreen, Hand Sanitizer, Wet Wipes (2-3 weigh nothing and are handy, not talking a huge amount and your GF will love your for taking them), Trowel (the small titanium trowel weighs 0.4 oz and is not that expensive) Bandana or microfiber cloth.

With a tent I would rather take a decently think microfiber cloth like from the swap shop, $2 or so to wipe down condensation on the tent interior. Before the microfiber days I used to carry a sponge.

KEYCHAIN SURVIVAL – That lives in my pocket
Fire steel, GI can opener, Small Swiss Army knife (can leave out if packing a real knife), Micro led light, Button Compass.

For the small altoids can survival stuff I will post a photo.
Generally I just add a space blanket and a lighter to that and thats mostly good enough.
Its already together so if its got an extra compass in it or whatever I dont bother stripping this and that out.

[Ken Thompson]

"It weighs nothing." Heresy! Everything weighs something. We are counting ounces here aren't we?

[I’m Joe]

I agree. Everything weighs something. So 2-3 wet wipes and a titanium trowel probably add up to an ounce. I don't need either and it's an ounce of savings that didn't cost me a dime.

[Troy Ammons]

"It weighs nothing. Heresy! Everything weighs something. We are counting ounces here aren't we?"

LOL – Grams

[Ken Thompson]

touche.

[Troy Ammons]

Okay here is some gram counting stuff you might find useful or maybe not. At any rate it might give you some ideas.

This Everyday list/stuff is probably the minimum I would go with.
Button compass is enough if I am familiar with where I am or AT etc.
Just a general direction finder works for me but you have to check them in the store as some are way way off. A real compass will weigh about 1oz so still not a deal breaker.

The list does not include TP, Hand Sanitizer or wet wet wipes or a comb or deodorant or a trowel. I would add in TP and had sanitizer prior depending on length.

The med kit is also pretty much min and both are in cuben stuff sacks.

The key chain rig, like I said lives with me all the time and weighs 1.6 oz.
I lost my little Swiss army knife but frankly to me about the only thing its good for is the tweezers toothpick and scissors. The blade is really too small for me anyway.

The one knife I have been carrying for probably 30 years and replaced I dont know how many times is the full size knife with the saw and scissors. Cant remember the name but mine weighs 3 oz.

For you gram counters 3 wet wipes in a sandwich bag that are actually wet weigh .6 oz. Added this in there because your GF will make that demand – LOL. Just stuff them in her pack.

3 dried wet wipes weigh less than 4 grams. Read someone here that was doing that and they come in handy even dry.

I created the tiny altoids kit to have something I could just stick in my pocket with a few odds and end in it.

The tube was setup more for a hunting pack but the compass is in the bottom so you can just flip it upsidedown and get a direction without tearing it apart or opening it up.

Both of those have a mix of survival stuff and some minor med stuff, IE if I am going out swamping hogs I might just grab one of them and the quickclot and a sawyer extractor and not take any other medical stuff.

I dont take both of these at the same time since they are redundant.

Everyday stuff – 4 oz, No trowel, no TP no hand sanitizer. I dont know where micro headlamp is so shoeing this micro LED light. I think I will upgrade to a Cree LED which is about 10X brighter. Libman microfiber cloth, micro light, soap, tooth powder, sunscreen, button compass, 3 dry wet wipes, lighter, toothbrush and floss, bug juice. In the upper right is a quickclot sports silver that does not normally go in my hiking gear. I usually pack that in my hunting pack, IE not hiking but at any rate it weighs 1.2oz by itself. I swap this stuff back and forth.

Medical – 2 oz
Gauze pad, sponge (probably not needed) moleskin, tape, 3 suture strips, pills of various sorts, micro super glue, 2 band-aids, neosporin, Visene.

Small Altoids Can – 1 oz button compass not shown but it fits.
SS wire, WP matches, Striker, 2 surture strips, 1 exatco blade, 1 needle, 1 safety pin, 2 fish hooks, micro cord, wet fire (needs to be occasionally replaced), 2 aquamira water tabs, button compass, Micro magnifying glass, Antibiotic, an aspirin or two and maybe a sudafed.

Tube Kit – 1.4 oz
SS wire, Micro Mirror, micro magnifying glass, gorrilla tape, wp matches, striker rod
micro pencil, 2 aquamira tabs, full size utility razor blade wrapped in alum from a pop can, safety pin, 2 Fish hooks, 2 suture strips, micro cord, button compass on the bottom facing down, an aspirin or two and maybe a sudafed.

[I’m Joe]

I found some of these at a surplus store. The paste is dispensed from the brush. They a pretty tiny and good for at least a few days.

Matches and a striker? Why both? And the micro magnifying glass?

Why the fish hooks?

Although the idea of it all fitting into the altoid contained is novel it just adds weight. Why not just a zip-lock?

Thanks for the pictures and the weights. My kits will be pretty similar in simplicity.

[Troy Ammons]

"I found some of these at a surplus store. The paste is dispensed from the brush. They a pretty tiny and good for at least a few days."

Neat will have to check that out. That said toothpaste is heavier than tooth powder so it may be a wash but thats just one less thing to get lost. My toothbrush weighs 11 grams and I was thinking about drilling out the handle – LOL, its contagious. I think I got it at walgreens. The tooth powder container is full and weighs 15 grams. Half that would be good for 2-3 days so maybe 10 grams.

"Matches and a striker? Why both? And the micro magnifying glass?"

I like to carry at least 3-4 ways to start a fire. Lighter, WP matches, striker, magnifying glass. People have lambasted me on the micro magnifying glass, but it will start a fire in full sun as I have done it and it works for magnifying like if you need to check out your skin although these are tiny lenses.
These came out of old bad camera lenses I had laying around so they are pretty high quality glass. The one in the altoids can weighs 1.6 grams. The one in the tube is bigger and heavier at 3 grams.

"Why the fish hooks?"

Spectra Line and hook to go fishing. Remember one time I was in NC somewhere wandering along the AT and came upon a nice stream with some trout and wished I had anything to throw in the water. Hooks and line are just one of those typical survival tools, although if really in a survival situation there are better ways to catch fish if you have the time.

2 fish hooks weighs .25 grams. The line is multiuse.

"Although the idea of it all fitting into the altoid contained is novel it just adds weight. Why not just a zip-lock?"

It is perfect to just drop in my pocket any time, and thats why I did it like that.

With all the other crap you carry in your pockets a plastic bag would not do. That said the small tin weighs 13 grams and wont come apart in your pocket, IE needles hooks, Xacto blades etc and everything just sort of fits so it was a no brainer and I dont care about 1/2 ounce in my pocket. I usually put a ranger band around it to make sure it does not open up. There is probably a small plastic container somewhere in the world that is lighter but I have not fond it yet.

In comparison a freezer bag with a small rubber band weighs 6 grams. Sandwich bag 3 grams so you could save some weight, but there are some sharp objects in there at least there are in mine.

If I am out and really have to use a small compass, I prefer the tube setup.

"Thanks for the pictures and the weights. My kits will be pretty similar in simplicity."

Sure, gave me a chance to go through some of my gear again.

If you are interested in some more photos of some of my MYOG gear…
MYOG M90 Climashield jacket I made. Going to redo the sleeve ends.

http://s195.photobucket.com/user/tammons3/library/Jacket?sort=4&page=1

M90 Modular Quilt. This was the first one I built with 3.7 oz XP and a 5oz Apex liner.
This one has ties that would not stay tied.

I sold the 3.7 XP quilt and built a M50 2.5oz Apex shell/quilt with nacro biner ties to hold the liners in. It has a zipper on the side to insert the liners. Plan to build a silk covered 1.8 primaloft liner soon. It should weigh 9 oz.

http://s195.photobucket.com/user/tammons3/library/New%20Mod%20Quilt?sort=4&page=1

Couple of Tarps although I have 2 more besides that are not MYOG.

The first one is a cut cut 1.1 oz Silnylon hammock tarp that is 13.5 feet long and
weighs 12.5 oz total with all the zpacks lines. It basically takes 2 packs of 50' line to make the tieouts. One for the ridgeline and the other for the stake tieouts. that is set up just after I finished it before seam sealing checking out the pitch.

The 2nd one is a SUL sil hammock tarp type I was trying out. 14' long and 5'4" wide one piece of cloth. It sagged too much so I gave it a slight cat cut around the edges with pointed ends and that fixed it. This one does not have a ridge line seam. I think it weighs 9 oz now with no cordage, but the other cat cut tarp has much better coverage so this one got shelved.

http://s195.photobucket.com/user/tammons3/library/Tarps?sort=4&page=1

There is more of my stuff scattered around in photobucket, water setups, kitchen etc

[Delmar O’Donnell]

"Every time I get new suggestions the total cost keeps creeping up. It's gotten to the point where I need to remind myself of my original goal of remaining cheapish while staying light and not making too many sacrifices."

And yet…when I pointed out an effective low cost alternative (Grease Pot) you found a reason to set the recommendation aside: "pot lifter won't fit." (Which isn't true.)

So, maybe you're like a lot of us…want cheap, light, and cool. Choose two.

[I’m Joe]

Easy Delmar… Not every choice is based on if it is cool or not. Just like not every decision is based on whether it is cheaper and lighter. First of all you say that a pot lifter will fit in the pot. That may be true but can it fit in the pot with everything including 6oz of fuel? That was a stipulation. The only response that mentioned the possibility of it fitting with that much fuel mentioned hacking it down to 2 inches. No thanks. That is useless at that point in my mind. I'd rather not risk burning myself or spilling hot water and wasting the fuel it cost to boil it. Its just not practical if you have to make it so small. Second, the simplicity of a built in handle has value. I don't have to worry about losing it and it is easier to use. I appreciate the advice and look forward to any more input you may have. I don't think this is the reaction I should get when I don't do exactly what is suggested though. Everyone has their own preferences and in the end will do their own thing. Obviously Troy has suggested many things that I have a different opinion on but he keeps coming back with more great ideas. I appreciate that a lot and would be glad to have many more people willing to give so much input even if my gear list doesn't conform 100% to their suggestions.

[M B]

Everyone likes something different.
Thats why we have so many flavors of ice cream.

I didnt like the grease pot. Its too large diameter to slowly pour water from into a freezer bag, because it doesnt have a pour spout molded into the side. You either dump it, or it runs down the side of the pot.

When someone else is trying to hold the freezer bag, its a problem. You are likely to get hot water on them.

Ive said it numerous times. For two person use, $59 for evernew 1.3L with built in handle was the best $59 I ever spent.

Although for the weight, Id just as soon take a solo kit and boil water twice really. An extra 8 min isnt a big deal.

Not everyone agrees with me.

[Author]

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