bear spray AND gun used in bear encounter

Two people slightly gnawed on by a bear. Morals: Carry pepper spray. Maybe even a gun if you are so inclined.

8 people slightly dead while driving home from camping trip. More morals: Don't drive while intoxicated. And especially not the wrong way on the parkway for 3 km:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Taconic_State_Parkway_crash

Wonder how the bear is doing?

She's hurting, and looking for an easy meal….

So now we have a problem.

If you look at the Herrero bear statistics, in every case the offending bear is tracked down and killed

Maybe a few more bears that happen to be wandering by also

I wonder what caliber the bear was shot with, small handgun it will likely heal, larger caliber it will likely die without a posse hunting it down.

I also am wondering what type and caliber of gun was used, primarily because handgun possession laws are much stricter in Canada, so much so that the statistical chances of a hiker being able to legally carry a handgun for bear protection in Canada is effectively zero. So without knowing anything more, I would guess that it was likely a small pump action shotgun, or a rifle.

"small handgun it will likely heal"

No

They will track it down and kill it before it has time to start healing

While the link given above suggests a handgun with the wording, "the hiker pulled out his gun and shot the bear at close range.", other news reports:

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/07/20130704-214857.html

report that a shotgun was used. Which is a whole more likely (because it is more legal) to be carried in Canada. The OP's link makes it sounds like the use of the gun was what stopped the attack. The article linked above describes:

"The man was able to get his bear spray out and when he sprayed the sow, she retreated but went after the second man, who fired a shotgun at her and, according to his report, struck her at a fairly close distance, Caravetta said.

The bear continued to attack the man, biting his upper arm and chest before retreating.

"Perhaps once the bear had him down, she felt the threat was gone," Caravetta said, adding the attack is considered defensive and not predatory."

Indicating that, for this attack, this bear, this turn of events; pepper spray stopped the attack on the first man, a shotgun didn't stop the attack on the second man – his going down stopped the attack. UL note: Pepper Spray = 14 oz and worked, shotgun = 6 pounds and didn't work, duck&cover = 0 oz and worked albeit with some injuries.)

And, as Jerry has been pointing out: ""We're not pursuing the bear because it's a bad bear, we're pursuing it because we think it's wounded," Caravetta said, adding depending on the severity of its injury, the bear would have to be euthanized and the cub likely taken somewhere to be rehabilitated."

Spray: +1 Gun: 0
Humans -0.05 Bears: -1

Gun forums are pondering what gauge shotgun and what load (buckshot, slug, etc) was used, and have the implicit or explicit idea that if he carried the right weapon, the bear would have gone down instantaneous. Having seen a medium-sized black bear take two .338 bullets (3800 foot-pounds versus a 1-ounce 12-gauge slug at 1000 foot-pounds) and keep going, I know that's not always true.

I ponder "How much noise were they making immediately before the encounter?" I wish (like seat belt use in a MVA) that was a standard interview question and included in more news reports. UL note: yelling weighs nothing.

A 12 ga. slug will work nicely, either breaking major bones and/or damaging vital organs or instantly killing with a head shot.

Buckshot, not so much…

"UL note: Pepper Spray = 14 oz and worked, shotgun = 6 pounds and didn't work, duck&cover = 0 oz and worked albeit with some injuries.)"

Hm. I have a different interpretation.

Pepper spray did not work, as bear attacked again after the pepper spray. Perhaps the hot sauce agitated the bear further.

Gun worked, although not instantly, as bear retreated soon after. (Hardly an UL option however.)

"Perhaps once the bear had him down, she felt the threat was gone," Caravetta said…

Well, since we're speculating wildly, I'd speculate that perhaps the bear retreated due to wounds. But that's probably not politically correct.

first hand account …

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/07/04/bc-fernie-grizzly-bear-attack.html

"I heard a growl, and then we both heard a second growl, and we said, 'What was that?'" said Farkas.

"The most terrifying part was I was so vulnerable, head down hill, feet up. I was screaming. Her face was no more than a foot from my boot. And she turned around and left."

David has the crux of it Right There.

" Pepper Spray = 14 oz and worked, shotgun = 6 pounds and didn't work "

you can add that if it's correctly mounted, you can deploy spray Vastly Faster, and without even using your hands if necessary.
Vastly Faster outguns Possibly Later in surprise attack defense.

(and this, coming from a fellow who is moving towards building an electric "polar bear fence" so he can get some sleep on his next trip)

"Perhaps once the bear had him down, she felt the threat was gone," Caravetta said…

Well, since we're speculating wildly, "

—
not quite so fast my politically incorrect friend. this is a bear with cubs. she will be Defending her own from the hikers, not feeding on them. interpretations of the situation is not speculation. not at all. this is what they do. i know this. i had pretty much the same thing for a mom. bears are reasonably predictable. not 100%, but close enough.
once hiker #1 sprayed her and was down (now threat free), she went after #2. noise, wound, fear, all notwithstanding, after he went down, she was finished. job done, same as. next ?

guns shmuns, i love 'em too, but for surprise bear encounters they are a distant third best thing to making noise and carrying spray.
on the other hand, if an encounter goes on and on, and you are being stalked over time/distance, well then, it's not really a surprise anymore is it ? about that time, rest assured, that little tin can is going to feel terribly not-enough, and you'll be sorely wanting that stainless 338 with kevlar stock we all dream about. back to speculation, no healthy sow with cubs is going to stalk a pair of smelly humans. it's not what they do.
—
mostly though :
you gott'a make some noise, and you got to stand fast your ground as well.
is gets scary.

You guys must strongly believe in the power of pepper spray, to interpret this story's spraying as effective when the bear continues to attack "undeterred" (in the words of the report) after being sprayed. And apparently you also think the shotgun blast had little or no effect in breaking off the attack? This interpretation stretches credulity for me, but I understand that's one possible view…so…OK!

Obviously spray is much lighter in weight and thus much preferred for backpacking. And it doesn't require "fumbling around" to load, as the (apparently) unloaded shotgun did in this story.

You mention a person can deploy pepper spray "without even using your hands if necessary." How is that done?

"You mention a person can deploy pepper spray "without even using your hands if necessary." How is that done?"

Well, you have to carry it in a sling between your legs and train your penis, but it is doable….

sounds like the guy carrying the shotgun didn't have bear spray (or decided not to use and went for the shotgun)????; got to wonder why would you carry a shotgun, presumably for bear protection as there aren't many hunting seasons open in July and not have it loaded????

lots of what ifs, but what if both individuals were carrying bear spray, both deployed them and both sprayed????

I'm frequently asked in the backcountry what I would use in a grizzly charge- my duty sidearm or the bear spray I'm also carrying- it's an easy one to answer for me, the bear spray- it's much easier to "hit" a charging bear w/ a wide aerosol pattern of bear spray than a bullet and unlike Hollywood, charging big critters (including humans) very seldom drop like a ton of bricks, they much more often keep going

It is interesting to me that those who have lots of experience with Grizzlies and firearms see spray as the first line of defense. Maybe we should listen?

I've lived on Kodiak Island Alaska for almost 25 years and have solo traveled thousands of miles here and throughout coastal Alaska. I only carry bear spray. Just sayin'.

its all a moot point anyways cause the BPL bears never attack anyone …. they simply lounge around the forums looking cute … that way you would never have to add the back breaking weight of that spray to your XUL spreadsheet

BPL bear =>

;)

My Dear Mr. Vacco,

With your disdain for firearms as protection against griz attack I hope you don't ever go into grizzly territory. Others with similar ideas have fared very poorly when attacked by Ursus Horribilis.

I have heard similar opinions from those who eschew firearms. As the saying goes, "a Democrat is a Republican who has never been mugged." (Well, I AM a Democrat but I carry and I hunt. I see no conflict there.

Addendum:
I see from others' posts that you have travelled extensively in grizzly territory, likely carrying bells and bear spray. I bow to your experience, having only faced down black bears myself – with the largest canister of bear spray I could buy.

And, upon closer reading of your post I see you do know that a "Kevlar stocked .338 (Win, mag.) would be comforting if stalked by a bear.

In light of this I retract my acid comment forthwith.
As Rosanna Rosanna Danna used to say on SNL, "Never mind."

I didn't see that Peter had anything against guns per se. Actually, he said he liked guns and spoke fondly of a certain .338.

Mike is a Montana Game Warden.

I had caribou stew tonight. From Adak in the Aleutians which I schlepped out from the hunt last Fall.

One can appreciate guns as tools for certain tasks, look at the evidence of scores of bear encounters and conclude that I, personally, am going to carry spray (if anything) and make a lot of noise (always).

No one is telling you not to carry a gun. I'm always telling people to do whatever approach they want. HYOH. I'm not going to stop someone from bringing their grandfather's canvas umbrella tent. It's how I started camping. But I'll point out that a nylon dome tent, sil-nylon tarp, etc, is lighter and more effective. Cause it's a forum for discussion of various issues.

I've looked at published research, talked to lots of people (except for that patient of my wife's who squeezed off a rifle round, clipped some brown bear hairs and drew some blood because he was, well, dead from a chomped skull), and pondered all the grizzly experiences we've had and the ones we've avoided having.

For myself: Always noise. And being alert to my surroundings. Spray in a higher-threat time and place. Guns, for me, only if I'm going for some bear sausage, roast, etc. Like 6 weeks ago.

But to each their own.

Eric,

You may want to do a little research on Mr. Vacco, especially his experience with Grizzly and Polar bears. I think he was the first person to hike the Brooks range in Alaska; solo.

He is pretty modest so we don't know a lot about him.

"You may want to do a little research on Mr. Vacco, especially his experience with Grizzly and Polar bears."

+1 and then some

He's also a great drinking companion – wonderful stories, great sense of humor, an all around rascal. I'd love to do a trip with him some time.