Overloaded with choices for packs

Scott-

AWESOME tip on the store….I'm in the east bay and a trip to Santa Cruz is always nice.
I will head out there and look. That's exactly what I was hoping for was hands on.

Thanks again!

I was thinking about this and it dawned on me that if you are really outside the bell curve for fit, it may be worthwhile to get a custom fitted pack like a McHale. Not the least expensive solution, but you would get a pack that fits like nothing else.

Fitz,

It is nothing new, but what I'm saying is this: once you have adjusted the hip belt in a way that feels comfortable to you, hopefully with the pack loaded enough so you can tell, then ideally the shoulder straps (the things that go over your shoulders) should attach to the back of the pack (on the bottom of the straps to be most nit-picky) LEVEL with the top of your shoulders. Don't "shrug" when you check this, stand like you would when hiking – perhaps with trekking poles if you use them. It is probably fine if the shoulder straps attach an inch or so below or above the level of your shoulders. If the distance is more than that it is a bad fit. Unless you have a pack with an adjustable torso length you have no control over where the shoulder straps connect to the pack.

As has been pointed out, everybody is different in what feel comfortable as far as where the waist belt feels best to them when the pack is loaded, some higher and some lower, so this is one of the two main variables that is unpredictable from person to person. The other variable is how the given manufacturer chooses to rate the "torso length". However, what is not uncertain is this: if you find a pack that fits right for you as described above, or have one that already fits to your satisfaction, then if you measure the vertical distance between the bottom of the hip belt to the place where the shoulder straps attach to the back of the pack, then THAT number (call it X) is objective. X is in fact the right "torso length" for you, and should match up pretty well with listed torso lengths. It you are going to quote a number it should be X and NOT by measuring you torso as usually described. X contains your personal "fudge factor".

X is your "official torso length", but unfortunately the listed "recommended torso range" range varies from pack to pack and from company to company, and they are sometime way off. However, if you can somehow get the precise measurements from the bottom of the hip-belt to the place where the shoulder straps on any pack (not the stated "torso length" the company puts out, but the actual measurement) then if you find another pack where this distance is X (or very close) it will fit you as well.

"where should the two straps near your armpits that you can adjust … Where should they be ideally when all the tightening is done?"

If you are talking about the shoulder strap tightening straps, the short answer is that it shouldn't matter much so long as the pack fits, your back is against the pack and you have the weight sitting mostly on your hips. If you pack fits it should naturally sit right up against your back at the top – if your straps go straight back at the shoulder then there will be no wiggle room. If you find that tightening the shoulders straps DOES make a difference the actual fit is probably off. If you have a good fit the shoulder straps should more of less take care of themselves – you just tighten them enough to bring the pack close to your back, then adjust the load lifter, if you have them. These should be about at a 45 degree angle. If not, another sign of a possible bad fit.

"The problem with me is that i seem to switch how high or low i wear my pack alot… Sometimes one feels comfortable at first, then i switch, and vice versa…"

I'm assuming this is yet another sign of a possible bad fit. However, since you only have one length to work with on most packs, make sure it fits perfectly. If it does this should allow for thee widest range of wiggle room to switch it around to break things up during the day, especially if you are getting sore from a heavy pack.

Hope this helps a litter from an entirely un-authoritative source.

Scott and everyone who helped me out:

I drove out to Santa Cruz today and met Nick and his wife from Down Works. WHAT AN AWESOME shop…..they were super friendly, helped me out tons, and I ended up buying (after loading it up with 40 pounds/30 pounds/ and then 25 pounds to see how the suspension handled) a ULA Catalyst.

I ended up with a Large Catalyst and it felt great.

Mark your advice about distance from my shoulder on the sewn in straps made a big difference in fitting this. Thank you for all the help.

I also ended up replacing my Patagonia Down Sweater with a Montbell EX 900 fill Down Jacket (XL) which blew my mind when I put it on their scale and it was only 6.8 ounces!!!

I almost got a new rain jacket to replace my Patagonia Torrentshell but Im gonna look around a bit more and read more before I do it.

Down Works also had some really comfortable and awesome sleeping bags…but compared to the WM bags I was looking at their builds were heavier.

I'll be reading more and posting more questions in the future in new threads as I try to lighten my load. Thank You to this community and your helpful advice.

"I drove out to Santa Cruz today and met Nick and his wife from Down Works. WHAT AN AWESOME shop"

Yup, this is about the coolest shop in SC if you like backpacking. FYI, there is a Patagonia discount outlet virtually across the street. We don't have much in SC, but that block is pretty much the epicenter of backpacker stuff.

FYI, My main pack for the Sierra for the the last 10 years at least has been the ULA P2, the ancestor to the Catalyst. Basically the same pack with minor changes. This is still my favorite pack and I only recently decided in the past month or so to try to check out some of the sexy new cuben ones. Still on order though.

You really can't go wrong with that pack. It is reasonably light weight, but unless you go on some crazy expedition where you need special gear, or you make really bad decisions with your future gear, you will probably never need a bigger or more bulletproof pack again. Very good choice.

I don't know if you can also bend the stays on the catalyst to fit the contour of your back like you can on the P2, but if so that should make it really fit like a glove?

Shawn,

As has been mentioned here if padded shoulder straps cause you discomfort the likely reason is that the torso length of the harness is too short.

This is putting too much weight on your shoulders and causing discomfort as well as negating the value of the padded waistbelt, which is to take at least 90% of the load.

SHOULDER STRAPS: should MAINLY be for just keeping the pack from falling backwards, not really for carrying a load (excepting when you want to for a short time to give your hips a rest).

LIFT STRAPS: (coming from the top of your shoulders to the pack frame) are mainly for two things:

1. pulling the top of the close when ascendng, skiing or on tricky footing for good pack control so it does not sway and throw you off balance. Side straps on waist belts are for the same purpose.

2. releasing to let the pack top lean back a bit on long descents for better balance.
Lift straps must have proper sholder strap placement to be effective.

Mark,

Is there an accepted method for measuring the torso length on a pack?

Measuring my small size Gregory Z55, from the top where the shoulder straps meet the pack body, down to the MIDDLE of the hipbelt, it is 16". It is 18" all the way to the bottom of the hipbelt. Gregory lists the small size as being 16"-18". The pack is spot on for me. Does this mean I'm a 16" size torso?

With all the variations in measurement, it's really hard, for me anyway, to know how a pack will fit until I've tried it. So this means, unfortunately, trying a medium and a small in just about every pack I'm interested in to get one that fits me well. :(

The example you just gave is very similar to what started me trying to figure out this issue, and it sounds like we are almost exactly the same size, and I agree, I always feel like I'm in between sizes. I really don't know what the traditional definition is for the base measurement and range on a pack, or even if there ever was one. Perhaps someone here knows. Again, the only qualification I have on this issue is a desire to figure this out, the ability to measure and logic. There does seem to be a standard way of measuring the back, but this doesn't help if there isn't a standard way the packs are measured. And then there is the issue of the range.

It seems like there are a number of pack makers that use the formula of a 2" recommended range, with the lower end of the range equal to the bottom of the belt to strap measurement. I think zpacks, for instance, might do it that way, but it might come out that way as an accident due to the width of the belt and some other formula for determining the recommend range. Also that formula might be best if the hip belt is not too big and beefy, like they often are in the more traditional packs. For a big pack with wide belts it might be safer for the companies to use the middle of the belt for reference, hence what you measured. Still I think it may be a judgment call for the company.

Now we are getting into the stylistic uncertainties. For instance, when you wear a pack the way you like does usually sit on top of the Iliac crest, "around" it, or somewhere else. I usually feel like it sits on top of it for me, so I assume that for me the most consistent cross-pack reference to measure from is the bottom of the belt. In other words if I wear a different pack I assume it will most likely also sit on top when it fits best, so I should look for a pack with the same measurement from the *bottom* of the belt to the shoulder straps. But it has been a long time since I used a pack with a big beefy belt – the kind designed to carry 50+lbs. So I might be a bit skeptical of this measurements if I went looking for a pack with a radically different hip belt that might wear very differently. Just an additional caveat to keep in mind.

All that said, I think you still are not going to be far off either way. The most important thing is if you feel the Gregory fits you right. If so, then if you want to use the measurement from the middle that should be fine, and call yourself a 16" torso. This will include your personal fudge-factor in it since the pack you measured initially was verified as a good fit. When you go to buy a pack online see if you can find out what *that* distance is (from the middle of the belt) on the pack you want to order.

My ULA P2 that fits me has a 4" belt, and measures 18" from the bottom. Sounds like we are exactly the same, but I am call myself 18". As long as we know what this means in terms of the actual measurements of the pack there is no problem.

I think the main thing will be not to assume that the lower range stated by another pack company will give you the number you want the way it was with your Gregory. That way you cut through any nonsense related to the range, and how it might relate the *actual* measurements of the pack.

Personally I just wish all manufactures would by default give the distance from mid belt to the (under part) of where shoulder straps attach, and the width for the belt. Possibly the thickness of the belt as well. If they did this it would solve all these problems.

It think they could do the same thing for shoe dimensions, but that is a whole different gripe.

Well, as I posted in my thread on the Gorilla I received the other day, in theory the size medium should have fit since the stated torso range is 16"-19". But it appears to be a bit big–when I undo the hip belt and let the weight rest on my shoulders and then reattach the belt, it sits significantly lower than does my old trusty Gregory Z55, which states a torso range of 16"-18" for their size small. I did read somewhere that Gossamer Gear is attempting to be more "accurate" with their torso measurements, whatever that means. Like you, I wish manufacturers would publish how their arrived at their measurements.

There is definitely a lack of consistency in the industry.

Where do you wear your belt with respect to the very top of the illiac crest? If it is in the middle, which by your post it appears to be, then yes, I would measure from the middle of the belt to where the shoulder harness attaches to the main bag. This is assuming that the shoulder straps fit the way you like. If that distance comes to 16" then you know what to ask any cottage pack makers. I know what works for me and have asked for measurements before purchasing.

Also, always cinch the belt where you like it first. The shoulder straps come second.