Pyrenean Traverse — Logistics

[backpackerchick]

Thanks so much Mark!

I will take my unlocked iPhone. Recent blogs have suggested that reception tends to pretty good when you are up high. Did you use the phone enough to notice what carrier had the best coverage over the portions you walked.

SPOT…I have people addicted to tracking. Maybe. I've used these for quite sometime but still find my self wasting a lot of time futzing with it and the website. I haven't been as keen on it lately. Hopefully, the web interface has improved!

Dedicated GPS…I have a Garmin 60CSx…purchased some years back…it's not light. I am VERY comfortable and familiar with it…on the fence. I am not a navigation wiz…and a GPS is no substitute of course. What did you have on your GPS in terms of maps. (Oh, yeah…how do I get the Joosten points? I haven't looked lately. )I wrote him and asked him for a file and never heard back. There has been much written lately about using the iPhone's GPS on such walks. I have played with it on a limited basis.

I will take a Lumix LX5, with wrist strap. I replaced the lens cap with an "automatic" one. $10 from Amazon…highly recommend this tweak!

Do you remember power points in the CAF refuges. I do not expect to charge in cabanes, unmanned huts and other simple shelters! Nice to know what's out there in terms of electricity.

You seem very organized and experienced. I am going to look up some of your gear.

Skills are all relative. I do a lot of things where one little slip would indeed have consequences. Especially on my skis! I am not a technical climber by any means. On foot, It is generally easier to go up treacherous stuff than down I think…I try to keep that in mind. Could I get back down the way I came if there is something I don't want to do ahead? I've gotten in big trouble before, not injury, but a bad position…I learned a lot in an interrogation room in a Swiss police station early on.

[Mark Fowler]

The phone is mainly for music, books – I have an electronic version of Joosten from Google Books (the way points are scattered through the book) plus scans of the maps, scans of the FFRP GR10 guides – and internet to search out information and book things when in towns etc. I rarely have the phone on when walking. I think phones in the mountains are really not the right thing to rely on for navigation unless you can guarantee power. Don't remember many power points other than in towns as most refuges are off grid and working on solar.

I would really prefer not to use electronics in the mountains but it seems unavoidable on these longer trips. I am going to try a simple solar set up for power that will keep my gps, Steripen Freedom, phone and camera battery charged as I really hate disposable batteries.

I had a French Orange sim last time which worked when I needed it – it was a pain to get set up but I was in France for 3 months. I mainly look for wifi which seems pretty wide spread once in a town – even cheap hotels etc. This time I will use a travel sim that seems to have reasonable data rates.

SPOT is purely for OK messages and hopefully never rescue but that must be it's primary function otherwise there is little reason to carry it. As I want to ensure it always has enough power for this I don't use it for tracking. If I want a track I use my gps but I usually only get the gps out when I am wanting to check my position. I am pondering whether to take my ForeTrex 401 or perhaps rely on the gps in the phone. I haven't had time yet to get into mapping on gps – only recently purchased a Etrex 30 which has this capability. Electronic maps may end up rather expensive as you would need both French and Spanish as they seem to stop once they reach the border.

Camera – Panasonic LX7 as it will take a polarizing filter. Will check out your auto lens cap.

[John Frederick Anderson]

Good luck with your hike, I might see you around, as the Pyrenees are my backyard and I hike there every year.
I use a MLD SoloMid when I'm on my own, or a Shangri-La 3 if the weather calls for it or I am with someone, and camp above tree line. Both shed wind and storms well, and the SL3 is really big and comfy for one on a long hike, think mega vestibule!. I use my trekking poles for support, so if you don't use poles, you will have to carry centre poles for either shelter.
Refugios are great fun every now and then, I use earplugs to sleep, french ones called Quies made of wax, one set lasts a few weeks and they weigh nothing, you can buy them in most french drug stores.
This year winter has stubbornly hung around, and there is plenty of snow still, and the long range forecast is for an unsettled summer.
HRP sections I have done involve much less up and down, but GR sections are fun too, mix and match depending on what you want to do.
I carry only half a litre of water as the higher up you go the water is better, and plentiful, and will be after this wet winter. I go cookless, and eat a hot meal in refugios every now and then, YMMV, but it keeps the weight down and the 'process' of being outside less complicated, which I value. I would think about walking east to west as you would normally be walking into and through bad weather, rather than having it follow you.
It is a fabulous part of the world, enjoy!

[Stuart R]

Fred – thanks for the tip about the late snow this year. I hike for a few days in the Pyrenees each July and 3 years ago was also a late snow year. It's definitely worth bringing an ice axe for those steep passes.
The other thing about snow is that it covers all the paint marks that normally mark the trails, so you have to take more care with your route finding.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Mark

> I may go from Banyuls to Garvanie
That would avoid the snow.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

> What if the Pyrenees are just SO socked in with snow in August that all the roads are
> closed and nothing is open?
There would be national rejoicing in most European countries for their ski industry. It might even be declared a genuine miracle.
However, more realistically, …

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

> What have you guys used for walking maps?
Guide books PLUS the relvant topo maps. Rando Editions are good. There are some Spanish ones as well.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

> Is snow depth per se really the issue?
> But walk on snow…what is the big deal?
Ahhh … in some places early in the season you would need crampons, in other places you would need snow shoes. And it can be quite steep, with big runouts – very big.

> I will not be depending on local "gear shops" for my footwear.
My experience was that the local gear shops did carry a very wide range of shoes, including a good range of light joggers. And some of the staff did understand shoes as well. Yes, boots are still popular, but so are joggers.

> A brand new pair of my go to shoes are highly unlikely to make it from the Atlantic
> to the Mediterranean…based on previous experience.
Depends. Some of my more recent reviews of New Balance shoes were based on wearing the one pair for the full 2 months we were over there.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

> Do you remember power points in the CAF refuges.
These days the Refuges do seem to have a few power points available for charging. Ask if necessary.

Cheers

[Michael Schwartz]

@ Stuart: Good point about the paint marks.

@ Mark: If you have time you may want to check out Parque Nacional Ordesa. I missed it when I was there but hope to see it the next time. Also, going there first might buy you some extra time, if you are watching trail conditions.

@ Roger: Good point about starting at the Med to miss snow, but walking to the Med is IMHO the 1st choice, if possible.

Re snow: Having an ice axe and crampons is important, but what is essential is knowing how to use them and having the experience of using these tools, as is having and using THE most important piece of gear.

[backpackerchick]

While I have had a bit (more than a bit to be fair) of formal instruction in mountaineering techniques, using crampons and basic self arrest techniques for this sort of travel is not rocket science. Watch a few videos on youtube (I think BMC has some good ones), read the relevant chapters in FOH and practice arrest a few times next time you encounter suitable conditions…which may be on the HRP. You do not need either ice climbing skills or gear to tackle the HRP in summer. Furthermore, there are numerous alternatives that will allow you to maintain the spirit of the traverse without actually walking every step as prescribed by Joosten (or using wheels!), should this be necessary.

Anyway, confidence in your ability to use techniques and equipment comes when you push yourself out of your current comfort zone. Yeah, it's a delicate balance.

At this point, and this is subject to change, I will have a CAMP Corsa 60 (a 50 would do) and Katoohla Microspikes ( I can use them with minimalist footwear) available when I get to the high mountains. I don't expect to need them on the HRP itself! I do have some interest in the classic peaks en route. I would carry the same axe and might use the Grivel Air Tech Light (new classic) on a slightly stiffer trail runner with a little structure in the toe. I will not waste time on footwear in local gear shops. I know what I want and I can have it delivered or waiting.

I would love to have a bounce box arrangement! I am convinced it would not be worth the effort and would likely end up wasting a lot of time and energy. I will probably be giving away bits of gear en route.

I will take a harness and some additional gear to the Pyrenees but not for this walk!

[backpackerchick]

Mark:

This is the exact auto lens cap I purchased for the LX5:

http://www.amazon.com/CowboyStudio-Self-Retaining-Panasonic-Lumix-ALC-5W/dp/B008061B90/ref=sr_1_15?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1370222778&sr=1-15&keywords=lx5++auto+lens+cap

This would appear to be the same product for the LX7:

http://www.amazon.com/CowboyStudio-Self-Retaining-PANASONIC-Microfiber-Cleaning/dp/B00AOA8KIA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_5

Only one left.

Update: I looked at the photos of this product again, the LX7 version appears to be a little different…?slightly different mechanism

It makes this a one handed camera. (I think there are safety implications here.)

Mine (the LX5 version) has worked exactly as advertised. I'm in LA. Lived in Sydney for many years…know the frustration of trying to get silly little things that aren't available locally. If you want one, I'll order it and send it to you in a letter envelope. (Don't worry about the $)

I have an Orange (France) SIM card from last summer that is still valid. It wasn't too bad to set up. I did have to go to a second Orange store around the corner (in Champery, I think) to get the smaller SIM card for the iPhone. I just did pay as you go, voice and data. I bought lots of these little refill tickets with the SIM card as not to have to find them later. The robot only speaks French. There were lots of numbers to enter. I think you had to buy different tickets for voice and data. (I DO have an EU passport but I don't think this was necessary.)

The post office is probably the best place to do it in France. They sell all the carriers' SIM cards and plans in addition to their own and you can get info on coverage.

[Wim Depondt]

"I am wondering if the 4 relevant FFRP books will suffice in terms of maps. I have never used these books but I have seen them in many refuges. I don't think I can do all the elaborate cutting and pasting of the Joosten recommended maps and end up with anything useful.

What have you guys used for walking maps?"

I didn't take any topo maps. My strategy:
– Joost's guide book
– gpx-track of the HRP pre loaded on my gps

Worked perfectly. Normally, Joost's maps were sufficient. In the odd situation, the gps bailed me out.

Wim

[Roger Caffin]

> What have you guys used for walking maps?"
Guide books PLUS Rando topo maps. More freedom to wander.

Cheers

[Mark Fowler]

I have photocopied the Rando Editions maps double sided A3 ensuring I get a much side trail in as possible. Gavarnie – Banyuls is on 11 sheets (110g) about the same weight as a single map. I ocr my guide books and strip out the excess. Print double sided A5 (A5 folds nicely to fit in a pocket) and it becomes about 50 grams. Still have pristine maps and guide for later trips.

I wouldn't trust Joosten's maps – not enough detail.

[backpackerchick]

I have been playing around with this for sometime.

I have my iPhone (Motion GPX) loaded up with the relevant OpenCycle Maps and various data files. It looks REALLY good! I do not have a file of Joosten's points! I did buy his book…both the "turtleback" and the Kindle edition. He did not respond to my email. Mark, do you have Joosten's file?

I do not know about other phones, but the iPhone has a dedicated GPS chip and the GPS will work without reception…just in case any one cares. Of course, will not work without power :(

I am reading up on the various software programs to create a nice paper map. Kinkos (or similar) can print these to any dimension on any paper you desire.

I think there are many threads regarding DIY maps on this forum and elsewhere. I will have a closer look at them.

As for the Rando Maps, yes, they are very nice. I don't think I will round them ALL up ahead of time. I am in the US at the moment and they are not readily Amazon-able! If they were, I would have them! I will take my chance of finding them closer to the time that I need them. I am not convinced I need Rando Maps for trip planning in this instance.

Note on power in refuges in general. Last summer I stayed in many CAF refuges…in another region. While they all had "power", there did not seem to be facility to charge gadgets in the more remote refuges…no power points per se. I looked pretty hard. Going into the kitchen at night, etc.The lights and other electrical devices were not plugged into the wall…the plugs were cut off and the wires were spliced somehow. I am not an electrician and I did not take a good deal of time to examine the arrangement. I would not depend on being able to plug your devices into a power point in a more remote CAF refuge.

[Mark Fowler]

I have never found a list of Joostens GPS points. They are scattered though the book but not available as a separate file.

Check that your iphone will actually allow the gps to work in aeroplane mode. In the early iphone versions at least the gps required the phone frequency transmitter be to on and thus severely reduced battery life. This is generally not true for Android phones.

A good source of os maps in the US is http://www.omnimap.com/catalog/int/hiking.htm

I found the auto lens cap for the LX7 and one is on its way.

Chances are that the refuges are wired for 12 or 24 volt DC thus the direct wired appliances. Saves having to have a thumping great inverter.

[Wim Depondt]

Might a dedicated GPS device not be better? I have use my smartphone – windows mobile – as a gps device, but a moved to a Garmin eTrex 20. My smartphone took ages from booting up till acquiring a signal and the battery drained pretty fast. Also fiddling with the touchscreen and going through the menu structure took extra time (can be bothersome when one just wants a quick verification).
Last but not least: my smartphone wasn’t waterproof (read: one can consult during storms and heady rain).
The above disadvantages cannot be found with a good non-touchscreen gps-device.

I now leave my smartphone at home and bring a budget lightweight mobile with me (with much better battery life than my smartphone).

PS: The HRP is indicated on the openmbtmap's. It only provides maps for Garmin devices though. Alternatively, plenty of gpx-files of the HRP available on the net (e.g. wikiloc).

[Mark Fowler]

I just found a set of FREE base maps for Garmin that cover the entire Pyrenees. They seem to be vector based, with 20m contours, roads, trails etc. Looking very good on first inspection.

http://topopirineos.blogspot.fr/2012/08/descargas-de-la-version-61.html

I downloaded the two RAR files. These are really two sections that make up a single file.
I had to also download and install WinRAR (free) to unpack the file. 7-Zip didn't like the two part file.
Loaded it into BaseCamp and started playing. I haven't put it on my eTrex30 yet.

[Roger Caffin]

Hey Mark – those are each 190 MByte RAR files! Ho long did it take?

Cheers

[Mark Fowler]

About 10 minutes a file but there is heaps of detail in the files.

To download you get directed to one of those BitTorrent sites. Just click "Continue as Free User" and on the next page the smaller "Click to Download" button to the right of the main buttons. The site throws up a couple of ads in new pages but the files come down quite quickly.

Most of the names are in Spanish and the HRP track seems to follow Veron. The really nice thing is getting a seamless set of maps across the the border.

[backpackerchick]

I downloaded the OpenCycle maps to Motion Gpx on my iPhone just to get a feel for what it would look like. The detail is simply amazing! STUNNING! And the files are very large. Memory is likely to be an issue depending on how broad a swath you want along the frontier. I don't see why the data couldn't be uploaded to the cloud and downloaded along the way.

It is amazing what is available for free.

eTrex? Is that the one to get. I have a Garmin 60CSx that is a few years old. I am very familiar with it now but it wasn't all that intuitive at first.

Two factors come to mind when thinking of a new GPS…the price of course but also the frustration of trying to figure out how it works…all the worse with cold fingers.

Why did you two choose the eTrex? What else did you consider?

If I am going to take a dedicated GPS, it may be better to stay with my hulk of a unit for the moment.

[Mark Fowler]

I have had a ForeTrex 401 for a few years. Very small, light (75g with batteries) but no mapping capability. For most of what I do I am happy with paper maps and just a location readout in UTM. I also carry a map protractor printed on overhead transparency film (< 1g) – a remarkably useful little item for really accurate navigation.

I recently upgraded to an eTrex 30 because it was one of the cheaper mapping models, relatively light, has very good battery life (2 x AA so charging/buying replacements is really easy), sd card storage and would allow me to play with digital mapping which seems to have reached a point where the range, and ease of use, of tools available to convert and manipulate maps is now maturing. I would like a larger screen but that plays off against cost, weight and battery life.

I still prefer paper maps as I can see a vast amount more at the map's (static) scale which makes route planning much easier. I have also been playing around with mapping on my Android phone. Unsurprisingly I feel it is clunkier than a dedicated gps and I find battery life an issue.

Edit – The eTrex 30 over the eTrex 20 – I like gadgets – the 30 allows use of the various ANT sensors such as the Tempe temperature sensor. Others include heart rate, cycling cadence etc.

[Mark Fowler]

The snow line is rising but with only a week before I go it would be a real problem starting at Gavarnie (Ariege levels are around 2000m). I will start at Banyuls (Eastern Pyrenees levels are around 2300m) and have 1 or 2 weeks at a bit lower altitude to allow things to melt.

[Roger Caffin]

Right now I gather parts of the Pyrenees are in flood. Part of Lourdes is under water. Could be … interesting.

Cheers

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