UL shovel mandatory?

[USA Duane Hall]

Is there a source for a UL shovel if one wants hot meals during fire restrictions? Which also includes stoves if you'll carefully read your campfire permit. In my early days from the '70's, I always packed one of those steel shovels with the wooden handle, which I had cut the handle down to the minimal USFS required size, as I cooked over a wood campfire. Per our permit, a campfire is defined as a stove also.
So maybe whats-his-name has a new income source for a ti shovel?
Duane

[Sumi Wada]

Might help if you identify what "campfire permit" you're referring to.

[Stephen Barber]

In regard to my California NF fire permit, if asked if I have a shovel, I reply, "Yes," having my QiWiz "Big Dig shovel in mind. I've never been asked more than that. In forty years of backpacking, I've never carried a "regulation" shovel, nor have I been asked to produce one.

[Bob Gross]

I was backpacking with one buddy in Yosemite National Park, when we smelled smoke in one small area. We walked around and found a smouldering fire under the ground surface where some others had camped. We each carried one long SMC metal snow stake for shelter purposes, so we used those as shovels. Then a platypus of water got it finished.

–B.G.–

[Gary Dunckel]

Steve, I've been thinking along the same line as you. I have one of Rob's new Mega Dig trowels, which I plan to use to scoop campfire coals under my Zia grill. I wonder if a simliar, but much larger, "shovel" could be made the same way as the QiWiz trowels. I need to contact Rob Kelly about this. Does anyone know what the USFS considers a minimal size for their required shovel?

[David Miles]

Backpacking stoves are exempt from fire restrictions.

[Justin Baker]

The California campfire permit defines a campfire as wood fires, charcoal fires, and portable gas stoves using gas, jellied petroleum or pressurized liquid fuel. The terms of the permit require you to have a shovel for a campfire at all times.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5404941.pdf

I would never carry a shovel backpacking for a fire or stove. That rule is for car campers. Yeah, I guess you could get ticketed for it. Any ranger who tickets a backpacker for not having a shovel with their backpacking stove is a complete asshole.

[John S.]

agree with gob

[Ken Thompson]

Since the size of shovel is not specified, a trowel should appease the Man.

[Robert Kelly]

Since the regs do not define what is meant by a shovel, or what the dimensions must be, it would seem to me that the worst case scenario on showing off your Big Dig to an inquisitive ranger would be a warning to bring a bigger shovel in future.
A MEGA Dig is bigger than a Big Dig, BTW, and still less than an ounce.

[Ken Thompson]

That's what I just said. Without the shameless plug!

[Dustin Short]

Antiquated language on the permit. Remember folks, these are not written by a legal department and are clearly not enforced enough to be questioned.

Technically you can get fined for not having a shovel with a stove. However Justin is right, you'd have to have a real pain of ranger to ticket you (or be less than friendly yourself, giving them reason to not be nice). So really the only way I'd worry about getting a ticket is if I was an asshole…

[Marko Botsaris]

"Since the regs do not define what is meant by a shovel, or what the dimensions must be, it would seem to me that the worst case scenario on showing off your Big Dig to an inquisitive ranger would be a warning to bring a bigger shovel in future. "

This scenario makes me giggle. Looking forward to it almost. "See sheriff, I DO have a shovel, *waves titanium potty trowel* and I think the judge will agree I have complied with the letter of the law. *spit* Now if you'll pardon me, I have a train to rob." Still, no sillier that asking someone with a canister stove to carry a shovel to put out all those underground embers he/she created. If it ever got that far there would have been quite a fireworks show as the canister exploded. Anyway, most of the rangers I have met were far, far more sensible than either the folks who wrote the regs, or the average campers they run into, so I'm not too worried.

[USA Duane Hall]

Thank you all. In the old days, the Campfire Permit did mention the minimal size a shovel had to be. Only one Campfire Permit, nothing for only wood campfires, one just for stoves, one just for bpers etc.
I was off motorcycle camping this weekend.
Duane

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