A topo of your tent

A Great Idea.

I've never understood the US square footage thing as a spec for a tent area

Stating area size is a useless thing IMO. Absolutely Worthless- without showing the useable length and width dimensions, preferably with at least floor level plans,(of tent and vestibule. ATopo like the Nemo link is even better.

Now they need to standardize the models…

The figures shown are 10 year old boys.
Let's see then stuff in a couple of "fat forties guys".

That's pretty cool…

An interesting concept to be sure that should be easy for other manufacturers to adopt using their CAD software. Kudos to Nemo for adapting it across their entire shelter line rather than just on select models. That's a gutsy marketing move.

However, Is this just clever marketing hype or truly meaningful and useful information for the consumer?

This looks like a two-edged sword for manufacturers. On the one hand, it's a great sales tool for those shelters that boast of their headroom advantage over Brand X, but a probable sales killer for some other items in their line-up where floor area and peak height look good but where useable headspace is poor.

Standardization on the height of the human occupant being used (good luck with that) would be necessary in order to make reasonable comparisons between manufacturers.

I'd like to hear the views of other manufacturers like Henry at Tarptent, Ron at Six Moon Designs, Ron at Mtn Laurel Designs, and Joe at Zpacks. The big boys – TNF, Marmot, Hilleberg, etc., will jump on it only if it looks like it might be a good sales tool.

useless imo

Most Americans don't measure anything and buy on impulse with no research. Go to an REI on a Saturday morning and watch people buying gear to use that day.

I don't think most are good with measurements in general.

None of it matters if when you try it out it is too small.

I think this is pretty funny coming from a company that measures the length and width of its shelters from the outside corners.

> I'd like to hear the views of other manufacturers like Henry at Tarptent, Ron at Six Moon Designs, Ron at Mtn Laurel Designs, and Joe at Zpacks.

I actually think it's a step in the right direction. I struggle to inform people about usable volume and how specs (esp. length and height) are often misleading because they fail to take into account the surrounding geometry. We have had lots of discussions around here about whether or not (or how) to publish "usable volume" specs as a means of comparison. I don't think contour lines quite get there since they only mean something to people used to reading maps with contour lines but kudos to Nemo for taking a stab at the problem and I don't have a better solution (but am all eyes and ears).

-H

(Henry Shires @ Tarptent)

re: only useful for people used to reading topo maps

While I do not disagree with that logic (hell..it is true!), I personally think understanding topo maps is one of the fundamentals for any backcountry person

Personally, I think the idea of "topo tent lines" is rather cool. Can really picture what the tent may look like. YMMV.

I was impressed that they used their own Meta 2 as the example of how a huge floor space can be misleading. I own one and love it solo but when I shared it with Dave and one of our members here both said it was too narrow at top.

Sigh. Someone in the graphics department got cute during his spare time.

Will it help the complete novice? Most unlikely: he won't know what he is looking at. He won't even understand a topo 'map'. He won't even know what he needs.

Will it help an experience walker? Most unlikely: he can tell what the tent is like just by looking at a good photo. For fine details you still need to pitch the tent and get inside.

Cute, but no more than that.

Cheers

re: only useful for people used to reading topo maps

I laughed at that too Paul. People buying smaller tents (that actually care about head room) more than likely also read topo maps. Otherwise you'd just bring a giant 10lb tent for palatial accomodations.

More information is never a bad thing for those that want it. And it does let you add a new criteria to weed out choices. But again it's only as good as the accuracy of the company, which Ure pointed out well.

Why not? Agreed that a noob may not be able to make good use of it, and an experienced hiker may not need it, but it's an easy tool for the great mass in the middle and a good reality check for those suffering from some form of 3D denial :)

I don't think it's a big improvement, but it does allow a quicker route to analysis. It's incremental at best, but there's no reason to fault Nemo for giving us more data.

My only comment is that I'd prefer more contour lines, like a nice, detailed topo.

I have made 3D CAD models of a bunch of tents and shelters over the last few years, precisely for the purpose of helping me work out which ones would work for me and which wouldn't. After modelling the shelter, I would place blocks inside it representing the different volumes I need: sleeping, to rise from a sleeping position to sitting; sitting while eating; cooking; changing clothes; etc. If any of the blocks intersected the surface of the shelter I knew I'd have problems being comfortable sitting out a storm in that shelter. Some of the results were surprising, as shelters that looked roomy from the outside turned out to be very awkward spaces (for me) inside, and others were surprisingly roomy.

I also used the models to get very rough estimates of the loading on stakes under strong winds and the vertical load under snow, just to see if there was anything that wasn't obvious from looking at the photos.

It was fun, if a bit over the top, but I did learn quite a bit about how I use space inside a shelter.

Images like the one on the Nemo site showing somebody sitting up with the area at different heights are quite useful if you ask me.

Comparative standardized models at say 5'8" and 6'4" (average and tall) with the 12" tall line for a sleeping subject would be very helpful. Judging by the number of questions, taller folk have a hard time finding UL tents with enough length and I have to assume that sitting headroom goes right alone with that.

There are also very loose interpretations of what a 2 person width is. The diagrams for 3,4, and 5 person tents are eyebrow raising at times— usually more believable when assuming that a couple of the victims are children. I challenge anyone to get 5 males that are 6' tall and 185-200 pounds in any tent rated for 5 people.

What all the manufacturers need to do if they scrap this idea, is to hire Franco to do one of his string models of every tent put on the market.

Good grief, easy CAD is making him give up the string. Or the cats took it over…

I'd much rather see a video with an actual person, AND gear to go along with to show size and available useful space.