Interesting new pack

[matt brisbin]

Hey all,

I'm curious what your thoughts are in this new pack I came across.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/179527514/bootlegger-modular-pack-system?ref=home_location

To me, I'd be concerned with one of the attachments failing but other than that it looks like a neat daypack.

[Max Dilthey]

I have a pack from Boreas. I like the pack, I like the company. This doesn't seem that useful.

Never am I backpacking when I think "If only I could transform my backpack!"

[And E]

So, its pretty much a pretty external frame pack, eh? Interesting.

[Ken Thompson]

Back in the early days you bought a pack frame and the appropriate size bag you needed. Larger for winter, etc..

As for Kickstarter, well…

[Dustin Short]

I'm surprised at all the distaste for kickstarter. I'll admit many of the products are subsidizing fun (like i'll give you a thanks and a slideshow if you pay for my vacation to Tahiti, or a video series on packrafting).

But for tangible products it's not bad. Assuming you do your research and fund a project that has a solid design (ie past prototype phase) and proper financials, then the site is great for basically doing market research. If not enough pledge than there may not be large (or easily accessible) market for your product.

In this case, Boreas does produce products already so you have a good chance (no guarantee) that they will actually produce the pack. I don't see a need for it in my personal usage, but apparently tons of others have. It does seem to offer a one pack solution for both hiking and biking (that's fairly new). It does harken to external frame packs, yes. But has that design been updated in 50 years? Not really. Has it been applied to biking? not in any traditional sense that I know of. The Absaroka pack that BPL used to sell was an update on the idea for hiking purposes but no longer available. So they are filling a niche that doesn't exist currently. By using kickstarter they're also minimizing costs. They could have done the R&D and released the model, then found out no one wanted to buy one. All that time and money would be lost and they'd have to recoup the costs by increasing the price of their other bags or layoffs (gear designers have kids to feed). It provides quicker, more accurate, and generally better market research than focus groups and interviews with current and future customers can, especially since they have to offer up cash to respond to a survey.

As far as UL backpacking though, probably nothing worth getting excited over until weights come out.

[David Chenault]

You could not cycle with that pack and wear a helmet and look up all at the same time.

Why would you want a 20 liter pack with a frame?

Any frame that's that flexible can't hold much more than 30-35 pounds well, and a good pack can carry that weight without a frame (or at least, not much of one).

They do have some very clean lines.

[Greg F]

Looks like the zpacks arc blast frame with a lot of extra features that add weight.

[Justin Baker]

Why do people give away their money so that somebody else can make money on a product?

Is there some kind of return on your investment? I don't get kickstarter.

[BlackHatGuy]

"Why do people give away their money so that somebody else can make money on a product?"

You do that every time you buy something, so it seems like a bit of a silly question. Kickstarter is really just an internet store – in this case one in which you're paying for a product long before it's actually produced and you might not get your product at all – but there are other internet stores that folks have had the same problem with (there's a current thread about one, AAMOF).

"Is there some kind of return on your investment?"

I guess this is what it comes down to – whether you see yourself investing in a company, or simply pre-purchasing a product. Other than the $1 or $5 (very low amounts, which generally don't get many takers, I don't think), I see Kickstarter as simply pre-purchasing a product, not investing in a company. If it's a product that appeals to me from someone/a company with a track record, I'm not too worried about it.

[matt brisbin]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I find my thoughts pretty much falling in line with everyone else. It's kinda like that all in one fax/copier/email/coffee machine/printer that has a lot of features but maybe lacking in every department.

So far I don't see how this is any better than a suspension pack with a rain cover.

+1 on the not so useful for biking. I hadn't thought of it restricting neck mobility but that does seem like a downside if it's fully loaded.

Just wanted to run it by all you experts :-)

[BlackHatGuy]

"As far as UL backpacking though, probably nothing worth getting excited over until weights come out."

Weights are on the Kickstarter page.

Triple-Tramp Suspension

Weight: 1lb 9oz / 695g

Torso: 18.5" / 47cm

Materials: 7000 series aluminum frame with stainless steel stays, mesh back panel, perforated EVA foam shoulder straps and air mesh backing

Torpedo

Volume: 13L / 793in3

Weight: 9oz / 260g

Torso: 18.5" / 47cm

Materials: 140D 2-way stretch front panel with 100D robic triple ripstop sides and bottom

Hopper

Volume: 28L / 1709in3

Weight: 1lb 3oz / 525g

Torso: 18.5" / 47cm

Materials: 210D ripstop nylon with 420D bottom and 2-way stretch front panels

Scrimshaw

Volume: 30L / 1830in3

Weight: 11oz / 315g

Torso: 18.5" / 47cm

Materials: 100D robic triple ripstop body, with 420D bottom

[Justin Baker]

Ok, so you contribute and you expect to receive the product. Makes sense. I thought that people where throwing money out there without expecting anything in return.

[Troy Hawkins]

Justin, the "rewards" on the right are what you buy. If the project meets its funding criteria, you'll receive the item, presumably, on its estimated delivery date (located below that reward).

Example: If you pledge $550 and the project meets its funding goal, you get the $550 reward.

Kickstarter makes perfect sense for some forays, and not so much for others. As has been stated, I think that for a physical product, kickstarter makes much more sense than a washed up musical artist begging for $50,000 from fans so they can record and press a few CDs.

Kickstarter is also kind of a nice way to do "market research." A company can send out a letter, an email, post something to a blog, tap distributors for feedback or information, or ping outdoor shops and ask what customers are looking for. They might get a hundred different needs/wants and as they start brainstorming a product (prior to R&D), they might have 5,000 people saying, "I'd purchase the bag you're proposing," but then only 100 people would actually buy it–it's a gamble, and kickstarter funding, in theory, removes that gamble (at least for the manufacturer). It's an ideal model for smaller companies to use; even larger companies are turning to kickstarter, because direct-to-consumer models are better for everyone involved than traditional business models.

The direct-to-consumer model makes people put their money where their mouth is. Whether or not kickstarter is a good thing for startups, or a recipe for nightmares is another issue altogether. You have to have faith that the product you're backing is extremely well thought out and refined enough to the point where you're not paying to be a guinea pig.

[J R]

I saw those weights, but I'm not clear if you add the suspension weight plus a bag weight to get the total weight for each bag setup. In other words, is it a total of 2lb 2oz for a 13L suspension-framed pack? Seems like that's the way it works. Heavy.

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