ESBIT: Simmering and Ultralight Baking

Hi Bob,

Re: temps– I'm not sure as i haven't put a thermometer in there yet. But, here are a couple of links which talk about this specfic design.

The first link is about the general concept, why it was designed, etc.

http://solarcooking.wikia.com/wiki/Funnel_cooker

This 2nd link goes over some testing done.

http://solarcooking.org/plans/funneltests01.htm

Obviously there are a lot of potential variables involved. To give an idea and reference from my own experience, i used a large, 1.75L pot and filled it about 75% of the way with heavy, dense, fibrous dough and it fully cooked in about an hour (a little over). It was late spring in Afton VA with outside ambient air temp around 80 degrees F. If i had baked this same amount in an oven, i would guesstimate that it would have taken about 45 minutes to cook at around 350 degrees.

This, btw, was done with the cardboard and glued aluminum foil set up with the pot inside a glass casserole dish with small glass salsa jar on the bottom for a pot stand.

Do you know if the simmering ring can give you more boils per esbit cube than a gram cracker? I am interested in getting more efficiency out of my stove so I carry less fuel per trip to save weight. I can get 4 cups of tap water to boil (2 cups at a time) in my MSR Titan with the Caldera Cone with the Gram Cracker.

I assume you mean 4 cups boiled per 14g ESBIT cube? That’s pretty good.

I have not run head to head tests of the Gram Cracker vs. the Epicurean Ti. That would be interesting. My gut feel is that the Epicurean Ti in high mode wouldn’t be dramatically different than the gram cracker. In simmer mode, I think the Epicurean Ti would be more efficient than the gram cracker used with the ESBIT under the gram cracker. The Epicurean Ti would almost certainly be more efficient if one were using round hexamine fuel (Stansport brand, Coghlans brand, etc.). All of this would need to be confirmed by testing.

I recently bought the Esbitmizer and got the same results….it can simmer too.

Interesting. I’ve only seen the Esbitmizer on the internet, so I can’t comment too much, but if it can keep a low, steady flame, it might well be suitable for baking.

Also, have you tried using Weber BBQ fire starter cubes as a subsitute for Esbit?

Generally speaking, fire starter cubes are designed to produce higher heat in a shorter amount of time so as to get a wood or charcoal fire going. Typically, they’re less efficient than hexamine (i.e. ESBIT) for cooking. However, I’ve only used the Weber cubes as a fire starter. I haven’t tried them with an ESBIT stove. I have some, so I’ll have to try them for ESBIT type cooking.

Photo from this past weekend:

Great article and always learning from you.

Always trying something new. Glad that it’s interesting. :)

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Jon….Are you still using the "Hiram" metal grate (trivet) you used in your bread making portion of "Dry Baking – Using the Epicurean Stove," "Making a backpacking Pizza Bread," and "What's Cooking: Risotto and Polenta" YouTube videos?

Was the "Hiram" metal grate (trivet) or placing a distance between the two pots any benefit in the baking end product OR after using it awhile finding the raised distance really is not needed in the cooking or baking as you explained previously with the addition of 1 tsp of water?

Thanks

Jon at Flat Cat suggested to use Carbon-Felt, OR “Hiram” metal grate between the two pots to get a more uniform heating when baking.
Have you tried either of these approaches and what are your feeling concerning the procedure since you use a small amount of water?

Ken, don’t get real hung up on the water. I’m using a teaspoon or two at most, and sometimes I don’t use it at all.

I’m not getting uneven heating, so I haven’t tried a grate or carbon felt between my baking pan and my pot. If I were getting a burnt bottom on my baked goods, then I would want to try something like that.

Take a look at these photos:
Here’s a 4″/10.2cm baking pan right after I’ve pulled a muffin out. No burnt on batter.

Now here’s the muffin (banana nut — yum!) :) Looks reasonably well done to me, but what about the sides?

No evidence of burning or uneven heat.

And the inside? Nicely done.

You do have to pull the item your baking out at the appropriate time. If I left it in the “oven” for too long, it would burn. I find that about 45 min with a standard ESBIT cube is about right. If I use Coghlans brand hexamine, I use two tablets, and they’ll burn for longer. In that case I have to be conscious about not allowing the baking to go on for too long or the item will get burnt on the bottom.

But the problem with that burnt bottom is with the baker not the gear set up. The Epicurean Ti is steady. You just have to experiment and learn when to pull the baked good out or you’ll over do it. Again about 45 min, maybe 50, but no more than that.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

This "Dry Baking" is new to me as in my past baking I have used the Wet baking Method, Reflector Oven and Dutch oven procedures when and where needed. I am going to have my granddaughters (14, 14, 12, and 11) do the baking this year on our 11 day trip (something new and exciting they have not done relating to food) and I need to have the technique down properly with POSITIVE results so they will want to continue when the time is right for them to give it a try. I will do a little practicing before hand to insure the variables fall into place and the product is POSITIVE.
Thanks for your support via information and experience.

Jim, Thanks for the response. I guess I could just make a lower heat burner.

Yep. Low and slow is the name of the game.

I’ve been able to get some good results with alcohol stoves and a simmer ring.

You just have to have a set up that you’re really confident in. If you do get the heat too high and your pot warps a bit, it’s not the end of the world. Ti is pretty strong stuff and it’s going to take more than a little tweak to screw it up.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

I just don't "grasp the concept" of how either the Epicurian or ESBITMISER can control the ESBIT flame and lower it.

Jim, could you shoe some photos of a low ESBIT flame with the Epicurian?

I just don’t “grasp the concept” of how either the Epicurian or ESBITMISER can control the ESBIT flame and lower it.

Jim, could you shoe some photos of a low ESBIT flame with the Epicurian?

Well, usually I have the windscreen in place, but here’s one:

If you’ve seen a full flame of ESBIT, it’s much larger.

If you don’t believe the flame, believe the muffin: ;)

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Wow. Talk about the ultimate LNT/low impact cooking set up. High cool factor. Might be a good one for Southern Arizona and the like.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Eric, The Epicurean Titanium Stove cuts the power output of Esbit by limiting the airflow to the tablet. I have several videos of this on my YouTube channel at FlatCatGear. There is also a playlist about the stove. In simmer mode, the Epicurean Titanium cuts the power output by 75% and the cube will burn for 50 to 60 minutes. 4 times longer at 1/4th the power. Best regards – Jon

This “Dry Baking” is new to me as in my past baking I have used the Wet baking Method, Reflector Oven and Dutch oven procedures when and where needed. I am going to have my granddaughters (14, 14, 12, and 11) do the baking this year on our 11 day trip (something new and exciting they have not done relating to food) and I need to have the technique down properly with POSITIVE results so they will want to continue when the time is right for them to give it a try. I will do a little practicing before hand to insure the variables fall into place and the product is POSITIVE.
Thanks for your support via information and experience.

Ken,

I think you’re smart to want to practice it. It took me a few tries before I got it down. I had to find out the hard way to not let things bake too long or to try to short cut the process and speed things up. You can speed things up — but then you wind up with a burnt bottom on your muffin, biscuit, or what-have-you.

For a group your size, I’d definitely recommend the 5″/12.7cm baking pan.

My tips (such as they are) :)
-Add a little less water than the recipe calls for.
-About 45 minutes bake time seems to be about right.
-“Just add water mixes” are super easy. Krusteaz muffin mix is the best I’ve tried for muffins. Bisquick for biscuits. Betty Crocker for cookies. The cookie mixes call for oil, which you can bring, but substituting water works OK.
-Olive oil works for both cooking oil and to grease the pan.
-The Flat Cat Hat, a carbon felt insulator, is worth the extra few $$’s and few extra grams.
-Be sure to remove any “mounding” left over after an ESBIT has burned otherwise your next burn may be too hot. Doesn’t have to be spotless, but don’t let build up occur.
-A lot of the standard muffin and biscuit mixes are 6oz or 8oz size (in the US). About half of an 8oz size works with the 4″/10.2cm baking pan. All 8oz works with the 5″/12.7cm baking pan.
-If you have problems with sticking, you can line the bottom of the baking pan with parchment paper. I usually haven’t found this necessary, but it helps if you want to make a nice presentation.

I’ve been doing this for a while (over a year, but only maybe 9 months with the Epicurean Ti). Hopefully it hasn’t become so routine to me that I’ve left out some detail. It’s not bad. The grand kids will love it if they’re anything like my daughter. It’s a “keeper” technique.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Hi Jim,

If you check out that 2nd link i gave earlier, the one about testing, you will read that they boiled water in a similar set up in Winter in Utah. Not bad eh.

Yeah, but what really grabbed my attention was this:

;)

That solar cooking is very cool stuff. I can’t quite see it for backpacking, but for a someone like a horse packer, it could be useful. Might be useful for snow melting in a base camp situation. NO fuel needed and would work at high altitude.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Well that's all Greek to me. Actually it's worse than Greek, because i know a little Greek having went to Greece last summer(rapidly forgetting it all though).

Yeah, i like your ESBIT idea for baking and backpacking better. For me though, the Solar stuff is going into my long term survival in the wilds/collaspe gear bag. Along with a small wood stove, and a larger titanium tent stove.

Some people were asking about how much difference the “high” setting made vs. the low. I got Sunday off this week (thank you, God), :) so I hit the trail.

Here’s the Epicurean in high mode:

And now in low mode:

It makes quite a difference.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

The first is a demo of a bake kit that will work with many wood burning stoves, using a ti foil heat shield, spacer, fold-flat baking pan, and foil hood. In the video, a QiWiz FireFly stove was used, but there is no reason you could not do this with an Emberlit, an Element, a Bushbuddy, a Woodgaz, or what have you. No pot is used for this method. Total weight of system is about 2/3 ounce.

http://youtu.be/6AmlkelDlGU

The second is similar to the Epicurean method, in that you bake in your titanium pot, using Esbit as the fuel in a burner that extends heat output of a single cube to 30-35 minutes. The fold-flat ti foil burner and aluminum base are very light (4 grams for both). The same 8 gram fold-flat baking pan is used in your pot with a 2 gram spacer. Total weight of system is about 1/2 oz. In this video I use a QiWiz FireFly and a WindShield for the windscreen.

Hi, Rob,

The product is a bit smaller, but the process is definitely SUL. Thanks for sharing those.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

"I just don't "grasp the concept" of how either the Epicurian or ESBITMISER can control the ESBIT flame and lower it."

Eric, here are few vidioes that show how the Esbitmizer lowers the flame height.

I recently used my Esbitmizer under my Caldera-Keg to boil 2 cups of 50 degree water. It performed so well I could have easily filled the Foster's can full to the top and with one cube boiled it all. I used the tempered glass and mirror set-up to view the flames of the esbit burner to determin if the burner to pot distance was correct. It was determined that the burner needed to be shimmed up 3/4".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL_4UsKvq_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJoHcZ8n-9M&feature=endscreen

Read how the Esbitmizer came to be at bplite.com
http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5511&start=50

I’m going to try my had at dry baking next week with esbit. I know how to bake with alcohol and water. This big blueberry muffin was made with 1 ounce of denatured an 1/3 cup water in a double boiler type set-up. After the water evaporates it goes into it’s dry bake mode to brown the muffin. I just let the stove burn itself out. No need to watch it, never burns. User friendly, I like that.(fancee feest stove was used)