Transition to a lighter pack

Hi Dirk. I'm more of a BPL lurker myself, have learnt a lot in my 12 months here. I am more of a traveller then a hiker, I go overseas wandering around for 3 month stints which do include hiking and camping. I need a fairly sturdy pack to go the distance that can survive cargo holds etc. I have recently bought my next pack which is lighter then the last pack but only because it is smaller.
It is still a heavyish pack for it's size. But I am improving. My pack I used in 1996 was a 60 litre pack, in 2005 I used a 40 litre pack and my new pack is a 30 litre pack.

My suggestion is to start with gear volume and weight. Keep the Dana Designs pack for heavier, bulkier loads and buy a pack that will carry your 3 season gear comfortably without going to big.

Keep in mind that you might well need to be able to carry a bear canister for the PCT. I own a ULA pack, a Conduit, which provides plenty of volume for even week long trips but probably can't haul a bear canister. ULA's Circuit will accomodate one and is certainly thru-hike worthy. If your gear volume will fit in this pack and you will be carrying less than 35 lbs. on most trips, I'd look at this pack before the Catalyst. The Catalyst has huge carrying capacity for a typical lightweight/ultralightweight gear load. This pack would be a better option is you intend to carry large quantities of water (2 gallons+) for extended periods.

In my estimation its hard to beat the ULA packs for base gear weights of 10-20 lbs. Durability is also excellent. Plus, ULA packs are made locally…always a bonus in my book.

Hi Dirk,

What I advise when switching to UL backpacking (and what I did) is change your backpack last. While a new pack is very seductive, it is only as good as the load you are carrying. Once you've looked at the other areas of reduction (tent, sleeping bag, clothing, number of items, etc …) then the pack choice becomes much easier. (Which pack has the features I want and handles the load I need to carry.)

That being said, ULA packs are top notch. I have 2, the Relay and the AMP. I use the relay for short bushwhacking trips and the AMP for my 3 season pack. I also have a Gossamer Gear Mariposa for heavier loads of 20 – 30lbs. I'm 5'9", weight 160 and had no problem carrying a 25lb load 20 – 25 miles a day with the Mariposa.

Thanks,

– Jon

Others have mentioned that you should switch your pack last, and I agree. When you do get around to the pack, consider the LuxuryLite. I consider this to be the 3-season replacement for my Dana T-1 (7#10oz). All of the pack weight rides on the beefy hip belt, but the weight doesn’t ride as high on the body. It also has the great ventilation of an external pack. It is better for on-trail use than scrambling, though, because the pack ‘rides’ on the belt.

I agree that you should switch your pack last (or close to last). I made the mistake of switching to a Gossamer Gear G4 before I had shed much weight from my back (I got too excited). The G4 (or the updated version) is a very good pack, but it only makes sense if you are carrying a very light load. I switched up to a Granite Gear Vapor Trail more recently. I've been very happy with it, as I feel the hip belt is every bit as good as my old Gregory (6 pound) pack. The frame isn't as strong, so it would probably collapse under a really heavy load but I don't carry such a load anymore. Also, a lot of the weight savings has nothing to do with load comfort, but more to do with material (e.g. silnylon) and design (few zippers or heavy straps). I think you'll find that there are a number of packs that can significantly lower your weight while still giving you the frame support and nice hip belt that make a huge difference for all but the lightest load. I agree that some of the ULA packs fit this description (I too have heard nice things about them).

Ian –

Wow, you really are moving downward in pack size. Three months stints is a good long time to be away from home. What changes have you made in the type of equipment you bring with you? Are you more concerned with weight or the volume of the equipment in your pack?

That is a great photo, by the way. Could you share a little more about your trip near Everest? What are your other favorite spots?

Thanks for the response, much appreciated!

Dirk

Russell –

Thanks for the advice about the ULA pack and the need for a bear cannister. I was at the PCTA meeting this year since it was held close by in Seattle, and the debate on this issue split the crowd. I would absolutely carry a bear cannister, if for no other reason than a fed bear is a dead bear.

I suspect most who eschew the bear cannister run into zero problems (except risking a fine), I'd just rather follow the rules and get a pack that is capable of carrying the cannister.

The only reason I was looking at the bigger ULA pack was out of the necessity to carry quite a bit of water through the southern section of the PCT. This year has been exceptionally dry in the Southern California, and while water is available, I, a stout Washingtonian not used to either the heat or low humidity, would probably opt to carry extra water. There is also the issue of resupply through the Sierras and the one, long stretch of up to 12 days without resupply unless you want to hike down to Independence, California. I also do like to hike in Utah, and last time carried a ton of water (but it really never got too hot.)

What do you specifically like about the ULA Conduit? What do you dislike? Could you, with equipment and a tent, carry a bearc anister and a week's worth of food rather reasonably?

Johnathan –

Thanks for the message! I've experimented with lightweight equipment for several years, making many really stupid mistakes and bad compromises along the way. I think yours is a great suggestion as there are easier ways to shed ounces than to abandon a pack that is doing the job, at least for now.

My problem is one of judgment and experience. I love to get out there, take trips, but like most people, I have a career and my level of experience is that of a guy who does not spend six months a year in the bush. And it shows in some of my poor decisions and trips gone awry.

Among my favorites was a trip into the nearby Cascades one September that was pretty much a disaster, as I awoke to find a river streaming through my tarptent during what was probably the longest and most frightening nights of my life. Henry Shires' tarptent did fine, I just didn't anticipate the veritable typhoon that hit us that night.
I was fairly certain that a tree would come down on me and was impressed how that little tent could withstand the driving rain and wind. It was not much of a match for the flash flood, however.

But all that said, it made me a believer in being prepared not for the perfect trip, but one that takes into account exactly how much can go wrong. The rain of that trip turned to freezing rain and snow, and after 53 miles of "challenging" weather, I was never so glad to get back to the car, happy to have been able to find my way across the rivers and creeks, which were rising fast.

I am having issues with deciding just how much risk is acceptable given that things can and will go wrong. I certainly respect those people out there who can comfortably cut their loads to a minimum because of their exceptional back country skills. I don't have those same skills. I am confidant I can put up with a good share of misery, but I also suspect that if things got really bad, I wouldn't have the necessary experience and fortitude to deal with it effectively. Thus, I generally bring more gear than is necessary.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with different packs. I shall keep playing with my gear, trying new things and (trying to) exercise more sound judgment.

Take care!

Dirk

Douglas –

I do a fair bit of scrambling but I've met a guy on the trail with one of those LuxuryLite packs and he raved about it. I was surprised by just how versatile those packs were, does it suit you over a long day? Do you have any issues with the frame getting caught on branches or other implements of destruction?

Do you like the belt and harness? I see that there is a contingent of thru-hikers on the various lists who are using those packs this year. I'd bet that a large number of their customers come from the thru-hiker crowd.

Thanks for the advice and sharing your experiences. I appreciate hearing from someone with a similar body type.

Ross –

It's good to hear that the flimsy belts I have checked out on some of the "ultralight" models carried at REI aren't necessarily the norm. I appreciate you echoing the sentiments that I should wait until I know more. You are right, the siren call of capitalism is very seductive, and my wants generally (if not always) out pace my needs. Certainly, that pack of mine could survive a lot longer given a few minor repairs. And I would rush out and buy the wrong pack, almost guaranteed.

Is it safe to say that the silnylon packs aren't as durable as some of the older packs? I know from experience that it is a strong material, but can it put up with a fair amount of abuse?

I probably could eliminate several feet of strapping from my pack as I would probably need to carry 50+ pounds to make use of their entire length. That would probably lighten my load some. I guess I could pass on the junk food and lose a few pounds myself, probably a lot easier and cheaper in the long run.

Thanks for the advice. I will take a look at the Granite Gear packs as they are well regarded on BPL.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences!

Dirk

Hi Dirk.

The photo is a fun one with good memories. I went to Everest (actually, India and Nepal for 3.5 months) way back in 1980, I was young and keen but knew NOTHING about gear. Everything I am wearing in the photo and all the gear I had was laughable now. I didn't actually have any camping gear as I stayed at guest houses along the way.

I have been on a very steep learning curve about gear over the last year or so. I'm not necessarily trying to be ultralight but as I say to myself, I'm the one carrying it so I might as well make it as easy on myself as possible.

What I am happy about is that I have worked out a fairly precise list of what gear I need for my style of travel. The list is very adaptable to various climates as is or add or change some items.

On BPL and by researching other sites etc I have been finding and buying the particular items. I have this desire (read: fantasy !) to one day do a trip with the perfect gearlist, it may not happen because of the unknown but it's fun trying.

Like probably everyone here on BPL, I go for items that when possible are both lightweight and compact. The best example I can think of is my new sleeping bag (which I have not seen yet) which is a Marmot Atom. Suits my needs but weighs less then half my present bag and maybe only a quarter of the volume.

The advice of the others here in your thread about your pack is true. Work on your other gear and then see what size pack you need. You yourself will have to decide how durable a pack you need.

It's all great fun !

Yup, it's gear first, then a pack to suit. heheh– then again, just one pack? They're like potato chips.

I use a GoLite Gust for my weekend trips. I've hung onto a Jansport external frame for handling bulky stuff (like %^&* bear cans) and family trips where I might need to help out with other's gear. Taking that Jansport is easy when I fill it with UL gear. Your Dana will work great with a 12 pound base load– it was probably designed for three times that.

As far as waist belts go, with a low pack weight, you don't need them as much. What looks like a weenie belt works fine with 20 pounds rather than 50. You will find that it all snowballs– as the pack weight goes down, you can use lighter shoes, etc, etc.

Getting the weight and bulk down is a learning process and it may take a few reincarnations until you find your best kit. Try this:

Take only what you will use.
Seek out the lightest gear that will do the job.
Seek out gear that serves as many uses as possible.
KISS: keep it simple sir — do a little soul-searching and be honest!
Don't fear nature, use the laws of physics, biology, and chemistry to make it work for you.
The best UL equipment you have is between your ears.
Have FUN.

>I do a fair bit of scrambling but I’ve met a guy on the trail with one of those LuxuryLite packs and he raved about it. I was surprised by just how versatile those packs were, does it suit you over a long day? Do you have any issues with the frame getting caught on branches or other implements of destruction?

It rides well all day long. It doesn’t restrict my stride and there’s no weight on my shoulders or back, so the pack doesn’t cause stress beyond carrying the weight. With three full cylinders the top bar of the frame floats just above my shoulders, and the frame width is less than my torso width, so the frame can’t catch on anything. (See photos in the BPL review and this BPL thread, although in the thread photos the hikers have chosen to adjust their frames higher than necessary.)

>Do you like the belt and harness?

I find the belt to be comfortable. It doesn’t have quite the monster padding of my Dana, but it’s certainly sufficient; I’ve carried 40 pounds with no problem (the foam hip padding is a good lightweight compromise). The belt is really all there is to the fit. The ‘harness’ just consists of two padded shoulder straps that slide along the top bar and prevent the load from falling backwards. You can keep the frame close to your back or loose. I tend to leave mine a bit loose, a compromise between ventilation and sway.

> I see that there is a contingent of thru-hikers on the various lists who are using those packs this year. I’d bet that a large number of their customers come from the thru-hiker crowd.

Probably. The free-floating well-ventilated design is great for cranking out the miles on trail. It easily adjusts in volume as needed without changing the feel of the carry (I keep a spare cylinder shoved in with the rest of my gear). It’s also easy to carry a bear canister: simply strap it on as an extra cylinder.

The drawbacks to this pack appear when scrambling or backcountry skiing. With rapid or extreme torso movement, the bottom bar of the frame can come out of the belt hook, leaving the weight suddenly on the shoulders. All you have to do is put the bar back in, but it’s a bit annoying. The pack is free to sway a bit from side to side, which is great when hiking or cross-country skiing, but for activities where pack shifting could cause a problem, I prefer to have the weight strapped close to my body. That’s hard to do with this pack, since the bottom bar slides easily in the belt hook, so I just choose a different pack for those trips.

Dirk,

In response to your questions about the ULA Conduit- There isn't much, if anything, I don't like about the pack. OVer the past 3 years, I've tried everything from heavy internal frame packs made by Kelty, to ultrlightweight packs made by Gossamer Gear and the like. I've stopped shopping since I bought my ULA. It's the perfect blend of weight, comfirt, functionality, and durbility. But you might find different of course. I just got back from a weekend hike in Assateague National Seashore and carried my gear and 6 liters of water just fine. I doubt I could carry a bear can with a week's food and my gear in the Conduit. That's a guess, though, as I don't own a bear can. You might be able to lash it to the top.

I do know that the PCT has been thru-hiked with the Conduit (Scott WIlliamson comes to mind) but it would require a very streamlined rack of gear. Bear cans aren't just a matter of opinion on the PCT, in some areas they're a requirement (in SEKI and Yosemite) so to not carry one would be to break the law. Not saying that folks don't go without bear cans in those and other areas, but I would make sure you have the capability to carry one.

I have had the opportunity to use the ULA Circuit and it is a very simliar pack. I'm sure this pack would handle 6+ liters of water, a week's food, and a moderately low-bulk kit just fine. WIth two gallons of water it might not carry quite as well at the Catalyst, but I'm sure the southern portion of the PCT could be managed. Also, remember that on portions of the PCT requiring bear canisters you don't need to carry much water, so its unlikely that you'd need capacity for a bear can and a gallon or more of water at the same time.

My friend Mike and I are the ones in the photos. Mike was borrowing my girlfriend's pack for our PCT Section K hike in Oct. '07. We both of us have the pack frame adjusted to set the sholder straps at a 45° angle. I have been carrying my LuxuryLite since the spring of 2005 and love it.

Regarding the pack frame's strength and relaibility: I fell down a 7 foot creek bank, skidding the whole way on the pack frame. The results were some superficial scratches to the carbon fiber "shelf" tubes and very slight bends to the vertical tubes. In late 2006, when the bottom tube began to show signs of breaking its bond with the pack frame, Bruce replaced my old frame with the latest release, free of charge, and now offers a lifetime warranty. An REI type offer from a cottage manufacturer of top of the line lightweight backpacking gear. It doesn't get any better than that.

Regarding the hook: I have been using the "Hook" since early 2006, when Bruce Warren sent me a prototype to try out. When mine began to delaminate he replaced it, free of charge, with the current configuration with the grommets. I have only experienced the belt unhooking when the frame hit a rock as I was butt sliding over a boulder.

Regarding adjustment to fit various hikers: I am 5'9" and weigh 205. My girlfriend, Susan, is 5'1" and weighs 105. We both carry the same pack in comfort. The only difference is my "Hook" waist belt is 'a little' longer than hers.

This pack fits so well and is so versatile in load bearing, from short dayhiking to 12 day long distance trips, that I haven't carried any other pack since I got mine at ADZPCTKO 2005. This is very likely the last backpack I'll ever buy.

I thought about it some more and want to amend my comments. Since my comments have already been commented on, I figure I'll just add another one. I would say that it is a good idea to get your pack last if you plan on getting an ultralight pack. If you want to get a pack with a thin waste belt and a pad for a back support, then you should make sure that you've lowered your carrying weight first. If you end up carrying a 20 pound load with a pack light like that, you won't be doing your back a favor (although it won't be as bad as you might think).

On the other hand, you should be able to switch backpacks right now and have a more comfortable experience. I was ready to wait until I was done replacing every piece of gear before I bought another pack until I picked up my Gregory 6 pounder (or maybe it was 7). Just picking it up made me wince (and it was empty). I told myself I had to do better. I've been very happy with my 2 pound pack; I've had up to about 20 pounds worth of gear in it and it has performed well. It isn't too hard to get your carrying weight down below that (unless you are on a really long trip) by making a few cheap, simple replacements (e.g. O2 Jacket instead of goretex) and then you can take your time as you replace the other items. If you end up getting down to a really light weight, at worse the pack is a transitional one which you could sell. My guess is that even with a really light base load you may still want to use the pack with more support on longer trips (food weight can add up).

Ian –

Thanks for the good comments. I think we are in a similar boat. I don't really ever know if I will immerse myself completely in the ultralight ethic, unless my skill improve to a point where I can feel reasonably comfortable traveling with less gear.

However, I would be more comfortable traveling ultralight if one of two things occurred: first, improving my skills and experience so that I was prepared to do more with less or (2) the continual evolution of lightweight gear allowed me to carry the extra items with a much lower weight penalty.

Either way, I do believe half the fun is reading about ultralight gear, learning new techniques and what works for others, and finally, listening to the advice from people far more experienced than I.

Thanks again for the information, I really do appreciate it.

Dale —

"The best UL equipment you have is between your ears."

Yes, and from what I've learned, it's also the piece of gear most prone to failure. Bravado and poor judgment lead me to re-evaluate a few things in recent years, most of all my own mortality. Fortunately, my mistakes were not fatal, although they had all the hallmarks of those used in magazines and classrooms designed what NOT to do while lost or crossing a stream.

I wouldn't say I fear nature – I tell people the chances of being killed are infinitely greater driving to and from work every day than hiking down a trail. What I do fear most is making a poor choice and then compounding it with additional foolish choices.

I do agree with the KISS mentality. That's one of the draws of ultralight gear. I am a big fan of gear that is of simple design and minimizes failure points. Ultralight generally dispenses of the frills and emphasizes the functional.

In the summer I have few qualms about minimizing my load. The fall in the Cascades can be a mixed bag. Beautiful one day and absolutely freezing and wet the next (I suppose most mountain regions are this way), and that's where I need the most help. Next year I hope to try my hand at winter camping, although the prospect of spending that much time in a tent isn’t all that enticing.

I do like your suggestion regarding trial-and-error. I will try different gear combinations to find what works best and hold off on the new pack. As for the potato chip suggestion, I probably have five tents and four sleeping bags at my apartment. I am hopelessly addicted. Plus it's nice to be able to loan out equipment to friends.

Thanks again for the advice!

Dirk

Doug –

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions about the LuxuryLite packs and for sending the links. Judging by other owners of the pack, I would say they have an incredibly loyal following.

I am glad to hear that the frame isn't restrictive and isn't an impediment to hiking in areas where bushes and trees grown the trail. I was concerned that keeping the load balanced would be an issue, but from what you and others have written, it appears that isn't a factor whatsoever.

I admire the concept of the pack, and frankly, the courage it takes to come out with a design that is more reminiscent of an era when the aluminum external frame packs ruled the trail. Honestly, I sometimes wonder where we would be with pack and tent design had it not been for the cottage industries. Certainly, some of these smaller companies would turn into huge companies because of their innovations.

But today, the envelope is being pushed by these cottage industries.

Final questions: How would you characterize your experience dealing with LuxuryLite in terms of customer and product support?

Thanks for answering my many questions!

Dirk

Russell –

Hey, thanks for answering my questions regarding the Conduit. It sounds like you found yourself the ideal pack. Your hike sounded pretty darn nice, I read up on the Assateague National Seashore (admittedly, I never had heard of it) and it looks like a beautiful place for a spring hike. Was it up to your expectations? Is this a hike you would suggest if a person were out on in the area?

I see they allow Over Sand Vehicles in certain sections. Did that interfere with your hike?

(The off-road vehicle / dirt bike subject is a touchy one here in Washington. As much as I am not a fan of multi-use trails that include motorbikes (for it pretty much guarantees that it will be aone use trail – who wants to get run over by a motorcycle while on a hike), I would be the first to say the motorbike crowd, as a group, put a lot of time an effort into trail maintenance in the areas they are allowed. The bikes are just so noisy, kind of ruins the hiking experience. I don't want to start a flame war here about off-road vehicles, just as a matter of fact I would say that my experience with the dirt bike crowd while on the trail, though limited, hasn't been all that great.)

Anyway, I digress. I am glad you like the Conduit and that your found it to be the ideal pack. The company certainly has a well-deserved reputation.

Also thanks for letting me know about using a bear canister with the Conduit.

I certainly do agree that bear canisters are not a "just a matter of opinion" but a requirement in certain areas. I was surprised by the number of people who said that would risk being caught without a canister rather than take on the extra weight. I don't see this as negotiable. The rules are what they are; if a person disagrees with the rules he or she may petition the forest and park service to change their regulations. But being a thru-hiker does not afford a person special exemption.

I saw Scott talk a couple of months ago and he did mention that he had carried a ULA pack. That guy is pretty humble and soft-spoken, both good qualities. He didn't talk about gear too much; rather he concentrated on the experience and showed us some pictures and film from his yo-yo trips. The dramatic change in the Sierra between early spring and fall are pretty amazing – you would hardly know you are looking at pictures of the same place.

Thanks again for answering my questions and please do share more details of your trip.

Thanks,

Dirk

Denis –

It sounds as if you got your money and whole lot more out of your pack. The warranty sounds terrific – Bruce really stands behind his line of products.

I was curious how the "hook" worked out, especially on users of different heights and body sizes. Obviously, I would think that you and your girlfriend are nearly at opposite ends off the spectrum and it isn't a problem.

I really will need to give this pack a try sometime. If testimonials are any indication, Bruce has a good thing on his hands. The fact that he continues to refine it bodes well for his company. Should I not get a chance to try one before Kick Off 2009, I will definitely try one out while I am down there.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and the pictures.

Take care.

Dirk

Ross –

Alas, I do like to hear from a contrarian. Actually, your comments were less contrarian and more of an amendment to what you wrote earlier. I agree with your reasoning especially in regards to summer backpacking. I could go out an get a lightweight pack right now and it would help immediately. I am fairly comfortable with taking a lighter load during the summer and be fairly certain that the pack I choose meets most of the qualifications.

Where I would get into trouble is picking the right pack that includes carrying shoulder season gear. I really haven’t settled on what works best because, aside from one hellishly wet and cold week in the Cascades, I haven’t spent enough time in the cold to find out what works (and what doesn’t) on significant multi-day trips. I end up using the majority of my vacation to take a week long trip or two during the summer to take advantage of good weather and the daylight. Come fall, I do hike during the day, but rarely can get anyone to join me on the overnight stuff except for early fall when the temps don’t dip too much. I know, I could go out more by myself, but I really like the shared experience of discovery (and misery loves company, so when it rains and snows, so much better to have someone close by to complain to regarding my lousy choices in gear.)

Maybe I could just test stuff on day hikes, but I feel that the better test is being stuck with gear in a variety of conditions over several days. I will need to take more time off this fall and experiment.

I am curious, are you happy with the O2 Jacket or would you have gone a different route?

Again, thanks for the comments. You have been very helpful, as has the backpackinglight.com community. It’s really helped me with the decision process.

Regards,

Dirk

Dirk,

At the risk of serious thread drift, you asked so allow me to rant…Assateague is a great place for a beach hike, but maybe not a backpack. My wife and I were looking for an alternative hike to the usual east coast 'green tunnel' as a warm up to our visit to Shenandoah NP this weekend. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 but given the conditions we faced, and the lack of solitude, I would've rather spent my shoe leather elsewhere. First and foremost, it was akin to a walk on the local beach more than anything else. Due to the ORV allowances on the Maryland side of the island (no ORV's are allowed on the southern, Virginia portion of the island) the beach was lined with surfcasters. Essentially, it was a continuous line of pickups backed up to the tidal line, each accompanied by an array of various surfcasting rods. All day we reflected on how reluctant Americans are to venture from their vehicles when outdoors and how, for many, outdoor activities are tied to motor vehicles. So, we dodged surfcasting lines for at least 5 miles before the beach became relatively clear but at no point during the day were we out of sight of a motor vehicle.

On the second day, weather forecasts proved to be completely inaccurate and what was supposed to be a partly cloudy, breezy day in the low to mid 60's turned into borderline gale conditions. Winds were sustaining at 25 knots with gusts well over 30 knots. The ocean was one giant breaker and sand was blowing and drifting horizontally along the beach. While I might have favored a hike in adverse conditions like this (it sure kept the pickup trucks at bay!) my wife was having none of it so we opted for a ride back from an NPS ranger after just a mile or so into the return hike. We ran into him by luck as he was on a call to pick up a few stranded paddlers who were attempting to circumnavigate the bay side of the island. An hour later we were back at the ranger station emptying sand from everything.

All in all, the beach was far too crowded to enjoy the hike and stormy conditions the next day cut our trip short. If I had to do it again, I would have started in Virginia and hiked north over the state line to the first backcountry camp site in Maryland. Well, live and learn, right? I did pick up a valuable lesson about beach hiking regarding footwear…don't hike in sandals without socks on unless you feel the need to divest your feet of skin in choice locations!

>Final questions: How would you characterize your experience dealing with LuxuryLite in terms of customer and product support?

I can't give you much of an answer because I haven't needed either. Bruce has a good reputation, though, and a lifetime warranty speaks for itself. Here is one person's experience.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=5891&cat=1%20%2D%20COMPANIES%20%28Customer%20Service%29&cid=67