Is a thermarest “Neo-Air” actually worth the price difference?

:)

Secrets…

Gosh sometimes we make simple things so difficult. Backpacking is just walking, sleeping outdoors and cooking an ocassional meal. We fret about how to walk (stride, cadence, foot strike, etc.); the perfect rain jacket; filter vs. drops vs. tablets; mesh shoes vs. GTX; foam pads vs. air; tarp vs. tent; trekking poles or not; liquid, gas, alcohol or Esbit; quilt vs. bag; what hat; what shirt; what pants; what shorts; what underwear; underwear or none; down vs. synthetic; GPS vs. compass; etc.; etc.

Just grab whatever gear you have and go backpacking. The gear just isn't that important.

Anyway — lie down, close eyes, go to sleep.

Amen.

Well said Nick. Funny enough, i use to have that philosophy and practice much more and probably was happier or less stressed than now. Need to get back to that more. This site has a bit of a pathological pull of gravity in those areas, i find myself getting caught up in it more than i would like to at times.

Thank you for the much needed reminder to KISS.

I love my NeoAir, so obviously the noise doesn't bother me. I haven't tried the Exped simply because I got such a good deal on the NeoAir, and I can't afford two inflatables at the same time. Besides, my XTherm was half the price of the current Exped and is much warmer.

I'm pretty heavy (225 lbs.), and I sleep mostly on my back, but I do toss a fair bit. The noise gets to me a bit as I'm adjusting everything before really settling down. After that, I never notice it, even when moving in the middle of the night. I prefer the narrower width (my guess is about 18", but I haven't measured in a while). I have very broad shoulders from powerlifting (and just naturally), so my arms hang off at the right spot on the regular size mattress. I tried the 25" width, but my shoulders still stick out over the sides of the pad pretty significantly, and they extra inches actually pushed my arms out. With the regular width, it's just right so that I can tuck my hands into my pants pockets, and my elbows hang just off the pad, letting me drift off to sleep nice and peacefully.

It works very well for me, so much that I'd buy another if something catastrophic happened. But that's because it fits my body and my style. I figure, try what you can at a reasonable price and weight, and once you find something that works, enjoy it. If I kept obsessing over my pad, then I'd enjoy my hiking and my sleeping less.

I toss and turn, wake up often, same as at home. No noise from the old NeoAir, what, going into 4th season now. I must USE it enough that it makes no noise. I bought a new XTherm, it has some noise, but have yet to use it as the snow is gone. I was letting some air out so I could sink in, now I leave it fully inflated and do fine. I noticed on the first group trip I was on and it was the first trip period using the small NeoAir four years ago, that one of the others with us had a BA, very noisy.
Duane
PS, mostly a side sleeper. My shoulders do better sleeping when I'm not cutting firewood, that does a number on my shoulders.

"I think thermarest is pushing the boundaries of what is practical with light materials and they are going to hit statistical failure rates far higher than say, their old green/tan series."

My experience is the exact opposites. I had one of those green and tan…actually I stil have it. Many patches, easily punctured IME. Original neoair bought in 2009 is doing very well no punctures or leaks after JMT thru-tip, a long trip thru Grand Gulch and many shorter overnight trips. I have not treated it more gently, in fact I sleep out on a very thin groundsheet regularly without problems and have found it to be quite robust.

Seriously considering upgrading to newer model for higher R rating.

m

>>So my guess is, people who like this pad do not toss and turn much, and are fairly heavy sleepers.

Wrong on both counts. :) I roll around a lot, and the crinkling wakes me up a bit, but I can go right back to sleep.

Michael Ray, I think I see, you drop the inflation WAY down, at that point I'd rather be on a well inflated prolite, now I see. However, since hitting my hip bone never was an issue for me on any other thermarest foam core pad, I will assume there is some difference that isn't obvious and that we aren't actually aware of re our sleeping patterns.

Nick, your formula, complex as it is, if I grasp it correctly, is the essence of my problem with the neo air, that formula fails, and becomes: wake up every time I move, wake up to readjust the pressure, wake up missing a bad foam pad, curse the pad for sucking worse than anything I have ever used, all night, so clearly while your formula is correct, what lets you achieve that goal differs. For me, the neoair is an obstacle to achieving this simple goal, not a solution, so I really wonder what the differences are. there's no over thinking going on here, it's simply a basic wondering how experiences can very so widely, and reading others and just not getting it.

I'm just going to leave this a mystery, though I will try it on one more over nighter, letting it basically be almost flat, with very little r value, and see if that works better, but I doubt it will since I tried most possible levels of inflation on the 5 day trip just to be fair, but I may not have gotten close to it being essentially flat, with just enough to hold the side hip 3/4 inch over the ground.

What I find odd is that everything people say they like about the neoair is what I would say about the prolite, even the short version.

Re the durability, holes, punctures, are always user error, I don't blame any pad maker for a user putting it ontop of something sharp (did I tell you about the time I was using the old heavy thermarest strapped to the side of my pack and on a very hot day, climbing a very sun exposed hill, I stumbled into one of those beautiful dry climate plants that have a sharp needle point at the end of each of their long thin leaves? Went through I think 5 layers of the rolled pad…). The only thing I'm noting is the actual statistical failure rate of the seams themselves, and statistical does NOT mean, it's never happened to me, it's an average. For some reason this is a hard thing for people to get, not sure why, if it never happens to say, 98% of people, then you are very likely to never have it happen to you. What interests me is the cases where it does happen, and happen repeatedly, to people, such as german tourist, who seems to have that german analytical quality down well enough to be worth paying attention to in their reports on gear.

But thanks especially michael, given this was a test purchase, and it was off of gear swap, and it will go back on gear swap when I finally give up on it, I am interested to see if I can ever get something even close to a good night's sleep on it, but also given that the prolites already do that, and do it much more conveniently, maybe I shouldn't think about it anymore and just sell the neo air this spring…

I'll make one more guess: with proper extra inflation, the prolite isn't going to give you hip bone protection as a side sleeper if you weigh more than 160 pounds, give or take. I weigh a bit less than that it and does, without a doubt. So interesting views, maybe the world is separated into people who can sleep on a non filled core air mattress and those who can't, and there's really nothing more to it.

I use an Exped UL Symat but when I had a Prolite 3, I had no issues with my hips as a dedicated side sleeper. I am 210 – 215 lbs.

at that weight, your hip bones probably are not poking out, I would guess, so the surface area of the hip area that contacts the pad is greater, which makes the thinner mattress able to hold the weight without depressing, good point. It's going to be pounds per square inch per inflation level on a prolite, which is actually kind of easy to figure out if you measure the contact areas of your body. Neoair may have a corresponding set of factors as well, my guess is it does, and when you happen to have that set, you can, as nick, achieve the simple formula of: lie down, go to sleep.

It's interesting though to realize how many variables are at play here, if one was inclined, I believe one could actually remove a lot of the subjective judgement part and actually determine somewhat objectively makes some people able to use one over the other.

Well, I am 6'1" with a 34 inch waist so most of my weight is in my legs, chest, back, and shoulders. And my head, if you were to believe my wife.

yes, it's starting to make some sense now, you can sleep on your side in one way, that puts most of that weight right on the hipbone, and the area of that hip bone in contact square inches can vary widely depending on the amount of muscle/fat that surrounds that part of your body, and in another way, that distributes it evenly all along your leg/hip area, so the term 'side sleeper' clearly can actually mean many things. As can tossing and turning, etc.

I should measure my prolite and see how many pounds per square inch are required to push it down to the ground, that's easy to do.

Fun stuff, but I am now motivated to give the neo air one last try before selling it and letting it find a home with someone who can get the results nick gets, the simple formula of it working for you.

As I said it's a delicate balance for me. I can tell it's not as comfortable if I have too much air and obvious if I have too little. Perhaps it's more important given the short size since I don't recall it being quite as picky on the full-length POE knock-off I have. I can tell I'm close when I can barely press my closed hand fully on the ground. That's where my hip can sink enough to keep my back straight.

I've never tried any other inflatables. I discounted the Prolite immediately because it's only 1.5" thick. I only considered those over 2" thick since I knew I'd need significant "cradling".

There are several that just don't like Neoairs for various reasons. Nothing wrong with that. I'm glad I do so I can save a couple ounces at least and smaller packed size. ;)