Is a thermarest “Neo-Air” actually worth the price difference?

I have been using my NeoAir as a "pack frame" for the last year and a half and it works just fine… However, I will admit, it is not so much the pad that is actually providing any real support as much as the way that I pack my pack. I feel like with a frameless pack, packing it properly is way more important than with a pack with a frame. For me, I make sure that they items inside fill the pack and are packed in a way that makes the pack rigid. When I do this, the pad is really more of a solid back panel.

Maybe it is the lower overall weight I have been carrying, or maybe it is the way it is packed, but my frameless packs have been more comfortable for me than the framed packs…

Anyway, here is a video I did a while back on how I pack. In this video I am using the Neoair as the "frame" however in this video, I also have a 1/8" ccf pad in with it. Although, it is not like the 1/8" pad really adds much support either…

Interesting. So you don't blow your pad up at all?

I used a folded 1/8" CCF for a while, and I found that it worked okay frameless, but I usually prefer a burlier frame (dual aluminum stays). How much stiffness does the NeoAir add?

Has anyone used a NeoAir as a pack frame for a ULA Conduit or Ohm? I'm thinking about getting one for my honey!

I've had my Neo-air for 2 years now. It's the most comfortable pad I've ever had. Because you blow it up yourself, you can really set the firmness that you like. I've had no issues with it.Big thumbs up for the Neo-air !!

Clayton,

No, I don't blow up my Neo when using it in my pack. I will actually push about 95% of the air out, then fold it in half, then thirds, and it is a good fit inside either my Blast 30 pack, or my small Zero pack. I also leave the valve open.

For me, the Neo isn't really creating any stiffness or rigidness, instead, it is more of a bit of padding so to say. The stiffness and rigidness actually comes from the way I pack my pack. I can remove the Neo from my pack and still get the same results. And for me, it carries great. I think the most weight I have carried like this was around 22 lbs, and it was fine. However, my pack weight is usually in the mid teens with the Blast pack, and around 12-14 lbs in my Zero pack.

Saying this, I have found that with a low enough weight and by simply packing my pack correctly, will actually create enough stiffness to keep the pack from sagging. I think that having a flat, solid object such as an air pad can help to line things up, and overall help somewhat, but not necessarily necessary. Also, I have found that by simply letting my pack fill up will also help create a bit of rigidness. This can be done by not packing everything as small as possible and then throwing them into a pack, but by letting things that can (such as quilts and clothes) expand as much as needed inside the pack.

At least this has been my experiences…

Kimberly wrote, "Has anyone used a NeoAir as a pack frame for a ULA Conduit or Ohm? I'm thinking about getting one for my honey!"

Wow, what a lucky, lucky partner you have. I wish my wife would buy me nice backpacking gear.

jimmy benson, as you can see, views vary on neo air. I can tell you that I will happily sell you mine for $85, good condition, used I think a total of 10 days or less, that's the old style yellow one. Neoair is the first mattress that made me actually long for a 3/8" closed cell sleeping pad, first time in decades anything made me think any positive thoughts about those uncomfortable closed cell foam pads, but neoair did the trick, there I was, every night, longing for anything that wasn't a neoair. Tried all the inflation levels as people recommended, but finally realized the r stuff is just totally an illusion, if you have to let x percent of the air out so that you don't feel like you're bouncing off it, then it's not creating that much air space. I gave it a one nighter then a 5 day trip, when I got home, I bought myself a prolite regular to go with my prolite short, and decided that's just fine. Trick with prolites, and I think this only works if you are reasonably light, is to slightly inflate them with a few breaths after they self inflate, then I get no ground contact, but obviously once you go over x pounds of body weight, it's going to push down too hard and you'll hit the ground. I don't. I also put a 1/8 ensolite pad under it.

I believe you could learn something by watching how people who like neoair sleep, and how much they weigh, that's my guess to figuring out why some like it and some don't. Blowing it up, by the way, is not fun, but isn't that hard either, you just pause, take a deep breath, then exhale slowly, repeat until done with a breathing break between each inflation. I'll take the prolite any day of the week.

When I got home from the 5 day trip, I talked to a non backpacking friend, and he laughed, and said, yeah, air mattresses suck, don't they? As in only air that is, no foam or feathers or whatever. So it's not a secret, and neoair isn't much different from any other (non foam filled) air mattress, if you can sleep on them, you will probably like the neo air, personally I've never seen an air mattress I liked that wasn't foam filled like the thermarest prolites and their older models, green, orange, whatever, all far more comfortable than the neoair, and all of which were and are dreams to sleep on compared to anything else for me.

As a side sleeper, I can safely say that neoair is the worst mattress I've ever used, and the only air mattress that made me long for the old closed cell foam pad, which is saying a lot. Just as others here can safely say it's the best.

And I'm another side sleeper that likes the Neoair. :P I use the short original version and am 5'8" and 160. Ill admit I've only had one other inflatable though so not much to compare to. I just wanted the lightest that would let me sleep comfortably to avoid hip pain.

That's why there are so many brands, styles, something for everyone. Makes me also think that the NeoAir lineup seems to be the standard, weight and R-value wise. I can't suffer thru the hardness of a ZRest, Nightlight or the like, they are too hard for my shoulders. I'm 6', 160 lbs. or so. I think people who are too heavy or curvy may need something besides a air mattress, at least as thin as the regular NeoAir is.
Duane

Another vote for NeoAirs!!

Side sleeper- original Neo short
Eventually getting two Xlite longs for couples quilt (how many years will I say this w/out getting one?) for luxury bed.

"This is where the magic happens"

"Let me introduce you to my son, Scarp."

This is has been a fascinating thread, thank you! While I agree that all have their o (e?) pinions, between here and the rest of the web I feel like my OCD would be set off by two key pieces of the NeoAir, the noise and the lack of durablity. Whether the latter is simply perceived or accurate, has really thrown me off.

I tend to be pretty aggressive with my gear, even expensive stuff – in fact, probably more, since I expect it to be hardier! – and I don't want to worry about the Neoair, again, even if it is just a confirmation bias.

I'll stick with my Prolite or even move to a ProlitePlus which is slightly heavier but seems to be substantially thicker for side sleepers… Thanks all!

Fwiw they make non ul versions of the neoair. Camper series or something. Material is not plastic-ey so tougher and quieter

I had heard so much moaning about the crinkly noise of neoairs that I was loathe to get one, as was my wife. I finally bit the bullet and got an xlite (my wife was NOT happy to see it – she was expecting the noise to disturb her), and was really pleasantly surprised with how little noise it makes. Sure it crinkles/rustles a little bit, but it doesnt have the chip packet feel/sound that people have reported. So I wouldnt let the threat of noise stop you.

I agree- not much noise from either the original or xtherm

comfort- short of home nothing comes close

reliability- my original (wife's as well) is going into it's fourth season w/ not even the slightest of leaks, the real testimony is the 100's (1000's????) that have survived the AT/CDT/PCT- can't use them much harder than a multi-month thru hike

+1 for not noticing the noise (+2 counting my wife)

…but I know people think they hear it so I alluded to it.

One more vote for the Neoair family. I am a side sleeper and it has given me many good nights on hard ground. I have a short wide Neoair Trekker. I was worried about the crinkliness and durability of the Xlite. It is built out of sturdier materials and no mylar-ish material on the internals to make noise and 25" wide. All at 16 oz.

No, it is a very noisy pad. Compared to my Exped UL7 that is more comfortable, much more durable, and warmer, it is much noisier. Drove me nuts.

I am happy with mine. Can't comment on the noise though, because when I use it I am comfortably asleep.

I'm a side and back sleeper.

I haven't used any other air mat, but I'll never go back to CCF.

I hate the expense, but I would swallow hard and then buy w/o further hesitation; won't sleep on anything else.

I have to ask, given this is for me the worst pad I have ever slept on, how do you people who like it sleep? I've held off selling mine because I keep seeing people who insist they like it, and they are obviously not making that up, but I am just as obviously more uncomfortable on it than any other pad I have ever used.

My guess is this: given the edges of the rolls, the actual regular size pad width is about 17" or so inflated. So if you toss and turn, it's basically a formula for sea sickness if you have the pressure down far enough so you don't fall off the edges, which is almost impossible to not do when you roll over, since your body is that wide, at least, as you roll over, and if you have it hard, you are always falling off the edges as you turn. If you sleep on your back, or side, and don't move, and just pass out, in that position all night, this pad would in my opinion be close to heaven, and I could see why people like it if that's how they sleep.

So my guess is, people who like this pad do not toss and turn much, and are fairly heavy sleepers. Being a light or heavy sleeper would account for why some people find the noise maddening, and some don't. The noise is definitely there, it's this crinkling sound, but the clue is, if you don't move, it doesn't make noise, and even if you do, it's not that loud, but it is there. Hint, use ear plugs, it's not louder than they block, if this was my only issue with that pad I'd love it and swear by it, sadly that's not the case.

Re the noise, I would estimate it as probably 10x or so louder than a prolite or foam pad, in terms of actual decibels (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe decibels are a logarithmic scale) , but of all the things I disliked about it, the noise was for me the least of the problems. Ie, if a prolite is 60 db, and a foam pad is 50, then a neoair is 70 db, just guessing, but that might be around the volumes, give or take 10 db in the range.

Re the original cause of concern, yes it's very thin, and feels very delicate. I was impressed by german tourist's experience of seam failure, that does not at all surprise me, I think thermarest is pushing the boundaries of what is practical with light materials and they are going to hit statistical failure rates far higher than say, their old green/tan series. It's the statistics that get you, if you have 2% failure, that means 98% don't, which is something the people who are in the 98% often fail to grasp. The x percent that fail sleep like cr@p the rest of their trip since the pad has zero value as a pad once flat, and then probably get something else for next time. The 98% are happy and swear it is great. This to me roughly accounts for the variance in user experiences, my guess is they are going just a bit too cheap/light in their production, and that's causing x percent to fail.

I'm a side sleeper and switch side several times a night. Here is my secret…

Lie down.

Close eyes.

Go to sleep.

; > )

+1 for NeoAir XLite. Noise, yes, but it doesn't keep me awake. Ground cloth when warm, over a 1/4 in CCF when the ground is colder. Best sleeping outdoors ever since I bought it last spring. Would not go back to any CCF or regular Thermarest. I side-sleep and have tried many options, but my hip bones love the NeoAir. I think it's the firm inflation and extra thickness that does it for me.

So what about the NeoAir All season vs the Exped UL7 downmat? More specifically, what will be more durable? Also, while i'm a bit concerned about the noise factor of the Neo airs, seems a lot of people say the All season model isn't near as loud as some of the others.

I'm a very light sleeper that turns a lot even at home so, yes, I wake up each time I move and I can hear the pad while I'm moving (but it doesn't seem to be that much to me). Once I find my new "spot", it makes no noise at all and I don't feel like I'm falling off it at all but I'm not a big person either. I'm like a cat playing with the area before settling down, getting myself all situated, getting a drink, moving the "pillow", checking out the stars, adjusting quilt, etc.

The hardest part I have is getting the right inflation level each time since that varies with temp. I usually try to start a little high so I can vent off a little if needed. My ideal seems to be when I'd guess my hip is 3/4" off the ground. Sometimes, I vent too much (or it gets much colder during the night) and my hip will be nearly on the ground. That is only a problem if it's below freezing. In fact, I just did that last week while sleeping on concrete and it was freezing. I could tell there was a cool spot (just wearing my hiking pants and quilt on top) but it wasn't enough to make me bother to get off the pad to add a wee bit of air.

I do wish the pad was a few inches wider. The few times I lie on my back I can't comfortably rest my arms against my sides unless I tuck my hands into pockets or waistband.

Nick, I'm trying to really understand your method ("secret"). Could you repeat it for some of us slower guys.