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DeLorme inReach SE announced, ships mid to late April

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Viewing 25 posts - 276 through 300 (of 359 total)
PostedApr 3, 2014 at 5:38 pm

Ok, just back from a day skiing high in the wild snows of the southern San Juans of Colorado. The SE was down, as usual, to 94%. I connected it to the Energizer triple AA charger with primo Li AA cells. In twenty-five minutes, I checked the SE, which was at 100%. Then I put a Lightning adapter on the micro-B tip and recharged the iPod Touch (5th gen). That took less than five minutes to get to 100%. The iPod provides only a graphic indication of charge state, except for specifying a 100% charge. The iPod was using the SE's GPS signal via Bluetooth to track my skiing. I hardly looked at the display, which at full brightness uses lots of electrons; so the battery had nearly a full charge at the end of the day. Apparently the Bluetooth radio is pretty efficient when communicating at very close range. The mapping app (GAIA GPS) and Bluetooth work while the display is asleep.

I don't know why people have trouble charging the SE with the PP-3AAMC charger, but the difference between my experience and Rex's, for example, is that I'm just topping up the SE, but Rex was trying to recharge a deeply discharged SE battery. I have heard or read and believe that fully discharging Li-ion cells is not recommended, but I cannot defend my belief. However, it is consistent with our two experiences.

Bob Gross BPL Member
PostedApr 3, 2014 at 6:26 pm

I come from the camera battery world, so I've been recharging similar lithium ion batteries for twelve or so years. The prevailing opinion in that world is that a single lithium ion battery has only so many charge cycles in its chemistry, and that number is thought to be in the realm of 300. That is significant if you are a photographer shooting up a storm every day. However, for the inReach SE, I think it won't see that much use. The big difference is that for a camera, you can have one battery inside the camera and a spare inside your pocket, just in case the first one runs out, so you can swap them. With inReach, that is not possible since there is no user access to the internal battery.

–B.G.–

PostedApr 7, 2014 at 8:41 pm

Bob Gross complained back in January about the SE locking itself on during the SOS condition:

["Once the message is sent, the unit's tracking is locked on (you can't turn it off)."

Yes, but you can sure as hell kill the tracking signal from getting out. Stick it inside a cook pot with the lid on.]

I just read this interesting story below about climbers who sent an SOS with a Spot device and promptly turned it off to save electrons. This was not a good plan for a couple of reasons. DeLorme wants to avoid that problem.

http://www.thejasperlocal.com/drama-on-andromea.html?utm_source=Newsnet&utm_campaign=13764b4115-Newsnet_November_14_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f101f176b6-13764b4115-11584037

Note to Bob: If you're not in an emergency, just cancel the SOS.

Bob Gross BPL Member
PostedApr 7, 2014 at 9:02 pm

Jim, first of all, I didn't complain.

Somebody had noted that once the SOS was sent, their device could not be easily shut down. I think that on a different event, somebody had opened up the case to disconnect the battery to shut it down. I commented about using the cook pot to stifle the signal.

Then you come up with the previously reported story about two climbers and their Spot device. The problem here was that they simply did not understand how the unit operated, and that once the SOS was sent, it will lock on and try to keep sending GPS coordinate updates, assuming that it has a good GPS solution to send. In their case, there was no good GPS solution, so the Spot could not send much of anything intelligent.

Since then, some of us have gotten familiar with the inReach SE device, and the entire protocol of sending the SOS message is different. It is well documented how to send, how to confirm, and how to cancel.

However, the Spot device is one-way only, and the inReach SE is two-way, so the user/victim will quickly find out if his emergency message was received or if there is some problem.

I was the person who reported on the problem that happened around August 2012 in Fresno County. A backpacker was very ill and a stranger sent the SOS via Spot device. Then, assuming that help would be on the way, the stranger took off on the trail, not realizing that his Spot was still sending GPS updates continually. The sheriff's dispatcher saw all of that and cancelled the helicopter rescue. That entire foul-up could have been avoided with a two-way device.

–B.G.–

PostedApr 7, 2014 at 10:05 pm

The moral of the story is Know Your Gear.

It's sad to read of someone ordering some sophisticated piece of gear to be used on a big trip into the middle of nowhere starting the next day. That's learning the hard way. Between lack of familiarity, inadequate User Guides, and poor reading comprehension, or no reading at all, mistakes will be made.

Despite the considerable virtues of the SE, it takes time to set it up and get comfortable with its use. Too bad users are forbidden to try out the SOS function. I still wonder how well the GEOS emergency dispatch works. At least the SE does not limit you to that.

Bob Gross BPL Member
PostedApr 7, 2014 at 10:41 pm

"It's sad to read of someone ordering some sophisticated piece of gear to be used on a big trip into the middle of nowhere starting the next day. That's learning the hard way."

There is a fool who can overcome any foolproof scheme.

Oh, by the way, I was curious about the maximum specifications for inReach altitude and velocity, so I contacted Delorme tech support. They responded that there were none. Well, that is a bunch of b.s., because the GPS standards document says that a civilian GPS receiver cannot report anything higher than one certain altitude or anything faster than one certain velocity. Anything beyond that, and the civilian GPS receiver is considered to be acting as guidance in a munition.

EDIT: I looked it up in the official GPS spec. Civilian GPS receivers are restricted to 550 mph velocity and 18 km altitude.

–B.G.–

PostedApr 22, 2014 at 8:13 pm

Hmmm.

Seems like you would still like to have a Bluetooth display device for map stuff with the forthcoming inReach Explorer. It doesn't sound like a compelling upgrade. As mentioned previously (at boring length and repetition), I use an iPod Touch (5th gen) with Gaia GPS for mapping. Don't care much for Earthmate. I've been skiing backcountry in the southern San Juans of Colorado all season with this kit. Once I got the moves down, and DeLorme got the firmware firmed up, it's all been good.

I recently downgraded from the Recreation Plan to the new Safety Plan. Half the price and everything I need. Preset messages can be used as manual tracking points, and they have no marginal cost.

PostedApr 25, 2014 at 2:55 pm

Just got the Panasonic Li NCR18650A cells and Miller ML102 Charger/Recharger plus a short USB micro-B cable from FastTech. Not very fast: three weeks. But cheap! Thanks to Mike W and William Wang for the suggestions.

The ML102 with a single 18650 and a 12" USB micro-B cable weighs virtually the same as the Energizer PP-3AAMC loaded with 3 Li AAs. Using the technical spec sheets for both kinds of cells I calculated that the three Li AAs have about 12.6Wh capacity and that a single NCR18650A has about 11.2Wh capacity. The AAs are not rechargeable, but the 18650 is rechargeable. The ratio of their two capacities is about nine to eight. Panasonic makes a higher capacity 18650 (3400 mAh vs 3100 mAh) which would reduce the difference with the Ultimate Lithium AAs to a negligible level. It was out of stock when I ordered.

The calculations above do not take into account the associated electronics for the two chargers. I assume that they both have similar efficiencies and that they both are high.

Both chargers can provide more than adequate current at the correct voltage to charge the inReach SE. It seems the biggest difference is the ability to recharge 18650 cells against Li AAs being discarded when they are dead. Each kind of cell has advantages in some conditions.

I have briefly tested the ML102 loaded with its 18650 cell for charging compatibility. No complaints from the inReach SE, the iPod Touch, or a Bad Elf GPS Pro. The iPod and Bad Elf required tip adapters. These weigh a gram or so apiece.

PostedApr 28, 2014 at 11:14 am

Actual use report on the rechargeable Li-ion charger.

The Miller ML 102 with a Panasonic NCR18650A installed recharged the SE, which was down 7% from the day's use, as quickly as a powered USB port, roughly 45 minutes. The iPod Touch, which was down to about one third capacity, also recharged quickly (much faster than the SE, probably due to a much smaller battery). After this tiny orgy of recharging, I measured the Li-ion NCR18650A cell's voltage. It was a robust 3.8V.

A little more on the ML 102: It is both a charger and a recharger. You can charge a single 18650 cell from a standard USB2 port using a USB cable with a micro-B tip, plugging it into the micro-B socket on the ML 102. The same cable plugged into the USB2 port on the ML 102 is used to recharge devices like the SE that have a micro-B socket for recharging.

I'm guessing that the capacity of the NCR18650A cell (3100 mAh) is roughly the same as the SE's battery. I've submitted the question to DeLorme support.

And if anyone has an iOS device with the new Lightning connector (like me), I have this advice. Non-Apple Lightening connectors, even the ones that claim to be blessed by Apple, are not very reliable. I've had to discard two. The Apple cable is still working. I hate to pay $20 for a micro-B to Lightning tip adapter, but that may be the price of reliability. Not strictly passive, it has a chip in it.

NoCO-Jim BPL Member
PostedApr 28, 2014 at 11:38 am

"What kind of battery is in an inReach and how long does it last?
If you are planning to be off the grid for an extended period of time, we suggest that you carry a solar charger with you. The battery in the inReach SE is a 2,450 mAh capacity at 3.7 V. The inReach SE has been tested to last 100 hours, based on transmitting one track point every 10 minutes with a clear view of the sky. Actual results will vary based on individual usage based on the level and types of functions you are performing on the device. The inReach battery charging temperature range is 32 F to 113 F (0 C to +45 C). The original inReach 1.5 model runs on two lithium AA batteries and provides about 125 hours of continuous operation at the 10-minute tracking interval with a clear view to the sky. inReach 1.5 also supports the use of alkaline and nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries. Using these batteries with the same 10-minute tracking interval delivers 75 hours with NiMH and 72 hours with alkaline."

http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-info/faq.php

PostedApr 28, 2014 at 12:11 pm

Thanks, Jim, for that info.

It seems that a 3.7V 3100mAh cell like the 18650 I've been testing would have more than enough juice to double the charge life of the SE, assuming reasonable efficiency.

Fred Eoff BPL Member
PostedApr 29, 2014 at 9:51 am

So is the standard InReach SE battery easily replaceable? I've never taken the time to check that frankly.

PostedApr 29, 2014 at 10:50 am

"So is the standard InReach SE battery easily replaceable? I've never taken the time to check that frankly."

It depends what you mean by easy. For us civilians, not easy. That's why we are talking about rechargers.

Rex Sanders BPL Member
PostedMay 7, 2014 at 10:46 pm

DeLorme inReach monthly Recreation Plan is advertised at $24.95.

For many months my bill was $27.12, including seven added fees. You don't get to see all the fees until your first bill.

This month it's $29.88, an increase of $2.76, mostly a $2.62 increase in the "Fed USF Cellular" fee.

DeLorme is following AT&T, Comcast, and Verizon's playbook – gradually ratchet up the fees while holding down the advertised price. Like boiling a frog, they hope you won't notice and bail out. As with AT&T, Comcast, and Verizon, it's not like you have a lot of choices.

— Rex

NoCO-Jim BPL Member
PostedMay 8, 2014 at 4:11 am

Just another data point, my latest is $30.71 for "$24.95" plan.

PostedMay 8, 2014 at 4:42 am

Jim,
I've bought the Miller unit you described, but was surprised to find that some of my 18650 batteries were too long to fit the unit. I use the 18650s for headlights and to have a way to recharge the iphone is a bonus. I did not find any information on the web regarding different length 18650s, but "protected", "non-protected" may be the difference. Any info?
Don

PostedMay 8, 2014 at 7:16 am

Yes, Don, the Miller ML105 cannot charge all 18650 Li cells. The "flat" ones are just the right length. The "button" style, where the + terminal protrudes (like a AA), is just a little bit too long. Very careful reading of the info on the ML105 is required to pick out this detail. When I ordered the 18650 cells I checked the manufacturer's spec sheet to make sure the cells would fit.

So, it seems that 18650 cells (among others), in addition to differences in capacity, also differ in whether they are "protected" and in whether they are "flat". I'm under the impression (possibly mistaken) that "protected" means that the cell shuts itself down when the voltage falls below some threshold. I hate it when that happens! I prefer that decision to be made by the electronics being powered.

Mike W BPL Member
PostedMay 8, 2014 at 2:40 pm

Technically, I don’t think the button top is the issue it’s the added circuitry that makes the protected cells longer. That said, I don’t think I’ve seen a non-protected 18650 that wasn’t a flat top.

If you want to use your protected button top 18650’s, then pick up the eNB 1A 1/2 charger/battery bank . It will take either protected or unprotected cells and the weight of the unit is only slightly heavier than the Miller charger. (Miller = 1.2 oz, eNB = 1.6 oz). The eNB charger can use either one or two of the 18650’s as it’s power supply and as mentioned, it uses protected or unprotected cells (my unprotected button top Eagtac cells fit just fine).

PostedMay 8, 2014 at 8:00 pm

I was just looking at specs for a variety of 18650 cells, both protected and not. For the same capacity a protected cell will be longer due to the extra circuitry. However, you can find protected cells that will fit the ML 105.

So complicated!

UPDATE: (later the same day)

Here's a guy in Denmark who's really into this stuff — batteries, chargers, testing:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary%20UK.html

The last three items on his index tell you what you need to know to read the rest of the site without feeling like an idiot.

By the way, how do you post a civilized link in these messages?

Jerry Adams BPL Member
PostedMay 13, 2014 at 7:35 am

Very good, Rex, posting the characters such that they don't get expanded into the link

although, since it says "edited by…" I see it took you several attempts : )

PostedMay 13, 2014 at 7:41 am

Wow! Rex, that's pretty primitive. You have to know the ancient tongue HTML to post a comely link to a URL. So nineties!

Rex Sanders BPL Member
PostedMay 13, 2014 at 9:43 pm

Most of my posts take two or three post/edit/repost cycles to get right, and that's after editing offline in TextWrangler for the longer pieces!

BPL supports a limited range of HTML markup, documented somewhere around here.

Other useful bits:
<b>bold</b> bold
<i>italics</i> italics

Lists are usually more trouble than they are worth, especially since you can't put natural line breaks in without weird results.
<ol><li>First line in list</li><li>Second line in list</li><li>…</li></ol>

  1. First line in list
  2. Second line in list

— Rex

Viewing 25 posts - 276 through 300 (of 359 total)
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