Smallest volume pack dimensions you guys? Cubic inches…

[michael levi]

I currently have a 5.3 pound baseweight before my pack.

I am thinking something along the lines of 4.5 x 10.5 x 23 plus a little extra for the rolltop. This puts me at about 1100 ci, maybe with two small side pockets ill be around 1300ci or 21 liters. Is this good? How much food can I carry? I have a 19 ounce down quilt that could compress well. Let me know, I'm about to order a custom pack, ill post pictures when I get it.

[Ike Jutkowitz]

For fastpacking/running trips, I use a packs zero xsmall (1000 cu in) with side pockets and shock cord. With a fairly restrictive gear list (4 lb), I can hold about 5 days of food, possibly needing to strap my pad to the outside for the first day or so.

For a more typical 3 season gear list (5-6 lb), I much prefer my MLD Burn which is about 1500 ci for the main pack. With 5-7 days food, my stuff often expands into the collar until I eat my way down.

Gear volumes differ, but 1100 is a specialists tool, and might be a little tight for you if you'll be doing trips of any length. Probably best to get this figured out before you order.

[rOg w]

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[Bob Gross]

One guy did a backpack trip with me one time, and in order to cut down his base weight, he brought a really small pack. For what we were taking, he should have had a 2500 cubic inch pack or larger. Instead, he had about a 1250 cubic inch pack. As a result, he could not get everything into it, so he was lashing all sorts of crap onto the outside of the pack. I suppose that could have been OK, if he did it right. Unfortunately, things were dropping off into the trail dust, so either critical parts like the stove jet got clogged with dust, or else things were lost completely.

One other guy did it right. He didn't have a backpack bag. All he had was an aluminum pack frame with everything _carefully_ tied to it. That works, but it can be a little tricky.

–B.G.–

[Hiking Malto]

I also have a burn like Ike and get 5 days worth of food in easily and seven creatively. I have an eight lb base, low volume and the food days were thru hiker food days, 5000 calories a day. I don't think I would get a pack volume smaller than the burn, just no reason, the burn is small and my quilt can fill the space for minimum pack volume.

[Bill Segraves]

I've been asking myself similar questions, as I get ready to MYOG a small sil pack for some long weekends with minimal gear. At same time, I've been following other threads in which people are having a hard time with the volume (not the weight-carrying capacity) of some of the popular UL packs. Looking at your plan, I'm wondering why not 5.5" instead of 4.5", to gain another 20%+ in volume with only a small fraction of an ounce more material. Or another few inches of extension collar. A tiny bit of extra fabric seems to give a lot more flexibility on these small packs – flexibility that could possibly even *save* weight depending on the choices it allows you to make. If I'm wrong, hope someone will talk me down before I pull out the scissors!

Cheers,

Bill

[michael levi]

Great feedback so far guys, I think im settling on 11 x 4.5 x 22.5 19 inch torso.

1113.75 ci, then im getting 12 inch high stretch mesh side panels. Also 2 top straps to add a bag of food last minute etc to the top.

This pack will be thick VX21 xpac. Im not planning on using CCF as a frame (i use exped ul7 inflatable), Xpac carries well. Part of the reason why im getting it 4.5 inches thin is because I want the load to be as centered to my body as possible, the only thing between me and my gear will be the Xpac material. Also no rear pocket. Also im getting a hydro port and loop so I have the option of carrying a platypus accross my spine, which will be good for running etc, water weighs a lot. But I think I can do it…

[Nick Gatel]

Maybe put all your gear in a box and then measure the volume?

I can get all my 3 season gear into a small zPacks Zero to include 4 or 5 days worth of food. But if I need to carry much water I don't like this pack.

[Nick Larsen]

Roger:

So which pack do the "contents fit better in"? The tall, narrow tube, or the short, squat roll top?

[Cesar Valdez]

My favorite pack has 24.5 liters / 1,500 cubic inches main pocket, plus side pockets and front pocket, for a total of about 33 liters / 2013 volume. I can fit 5 days worth of deluxe food rations, i.e. 3 full meals and 2 snacks per day, but if I really wanted to I could scale things down and push it to maybe 1 week of food or 6 days no problem.

I might be able to fit more after I get my 1+ season sleeping bag upgrade, which hopefully will be here today or tomorrow. My old summer bag was synthetic, and new one is down.

I should also add that I take full advantage of my side and front pockets, and also have both a chest pouch and a hip belt pocket that I use. I have never used both the chest pouch and hip pocket together, and as of late I am favoring the hip pocket because a lot of times going uphill for whatever reason the chest pouch flops around a lot and it's a bit annoying–though it is about three times as big as my hip pocket.

Don't forget water. Not sure where you will be using this pack most of the time and how much water you plan on hauling. I could max out my water load at 3.5 liters (1 liter in each side pocket in water bottles, 1 liter in a bladder in the front pocket, and half a liter bottle in my shoulder pouch), but this year I am opting for 700ml bottles in the side pockets plus a small 380ml bottle in my shoulder pouch for a little less than 1.8 liters of water total. Where I hike there is usually an abundance of good quality water to take advantage of, however.

So where are you getting the custom pack built? What fabric? What options? Any estimate on total weight? Looking forward to seeing what you settle on :)

[James Marco]

Once you get your base gear measured, add in for the water and food.
For example, I use a 2200ci pack (Gossamer Gear Murmur), but about 60-70% of the volume is food, water, fuel, and extra clothing (sweater/rainjacket.)

The actual "camp" gear will fit easily into a small compression sack and side pouches. Fuel/water/sweater/rain jacket goes into the side & front pockets. Tarp, too. The pad pocket keeps my sleeping pad. My pack has room for two small food bags. Or about 10-14 days of food depending…

[rOg w]

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[Andy Anderson]

When trying to use the smallest pack possible, a big stretchy mesh pock on the front is a must. If you don't need it don't use it, if you need it, you have it. It makes all the difference in the world. And water bottle pockets, got to have them too!

[michael levi]

Zimmer is making it. Vx21, with vx07 for rolltop, lycra mesh pockets.

I was thinking about going 1.43 black cuben for the rolltop. Would it be worth it? Will food get hot?

[michael levi]

Any comments are appreciated. Total weight with bungee is 13 ounces.

Hydro port up top.

Lycra side pockets.

12 x 4.5 x 23 w/ 19in torso.

[Hiking Malto]

What are your plans for the side pockets? They look too tall and narrow to use for much.

[Ken Thompson]

Why a hip belt? Why not a removable one?

Why just one side compression point?

Black is beautiful. I would want the straps and belt to match, not contrast. But that's just me.

Enjoy!

[michael levi]

This pack is small, no compression is needed as I just stuff my down quilt in the bottom and it expands. It's going to be like a drybag once I seamseal it.

I like a real hip belt on my packs. It makes it stable when running or on a motorcycle etc. dyneema lays better than Xpac, which is a very stiff material.

The pockets are tall for added security. There perfect for maps, compass, snacks, tent pole, or platypus bottles. But I'm planning on using an internal bladder and hose.

This pack is sleek, and minimal, which is perfect for my sul/ comfort setup.

[Edward Jursek]

I was looking at another SUL thread and got to thinking about the volume limits to SUL. I recalled this thread and re-read it. What I could really use are some comprehensive gear lists, including consumables, from SUL hikers who are using packs with sub 1700 cu in volume for trips of 5,7 or more days. I see claims of carrying 7 days worth of food and struggle imagining that in my SUL pack.I am curious what comfort and safety trade offs are being made to go SUL for that long.

[Bob Gross]

A general rule-of-thumb is that 1000 cubic inches of pack volume will hold about 10 pounds of load, so 1700 cubic inches might be expected to hold 17 pounds.

The other rule-of-thumb is that you will need about 1.5 pounds worth of consumables per day, although there is variation on that.

Doing the math, seven days worth of consumables will be about 10-11 pounds. Assuming SUL base weight gear, that means a total load of about 15-16 pounds, and that sort of agrees with your 1700 cubic inch pack.

–B.G.–

[Edward Jursek]

Thanks for the information Bob! It will be fun to experiment. My current "SUL" kit is at 6 lbs. I hike in the PNW and can't seem to get a 3 season kit much lower for my needs. Certainly won't get under 5 lbs. I am thinking my pack may hold up to 7 days rations after looking over your calculations and looking at it loaded with my kit, but I am skeptical it will carry the weight with any comfort. Add in consumables and a liter of water to carry between stops, for 17 lbs -18lbs, I think I will be past my comfort limit. I have previously used a GG Murmur and a MLD Prophet in spinnaker, and 15 lbs. was about the max for me with those packs. I plan on starting with 3 day trips and working my way up the point of diminishing returns. I expect comfort will be the barrier.

SUL… taking into account three days of food being carried (average town-to-town distance)

If you need more than 25 liters of volume than you have too much crap.

If you can carry three days of food and keep it at or under 16 liters you are doing things right.

[michael levi]

Thanks for bumping this John, now I get to look at the awesome/ beautiful backpack I once had built and had to sell due to short torso height.

*sniff*

*sniff*

bad john…. bad john!!!

[James Marco]

Well, the origonal pack dimensions as posted were so close to a GG Kumo/Murmur that I started looking into some of the other packs and reasons why most cannot carry 25 lbs fairly comfortably in them.

I was thinking that a GG Gorilla might be the ticket for 3 weeks, possibly 24 days at a time. Note that these are typically unsupported hikes in any way. You carry your gear from day one, or, you don't have it.

Anyway, it seems the suspension is the biggest limiter for most. While the higher loads often exceede the mfg recomendations, I always use a folded CCF pad for a frame. In early spring/late fall I like to also carry a NeoAir, which seems to fail pretty miserably as a frame, even when pumped up to various levels. The next was the AirBeam. This is somewhat better (being much thinner/firmer) but still buckled under 10 pounds.
I do not recommend them as a frame system.

A three layer NightLight pad worked well for up to 20 pounds, with a 5 layer working into the 25-30pound range. Two layers worked well for 10-15 pounds. With a standard SitLight working well at 8-10 pounds. My 5 layer pad added about 2" to the thickness. So, for the 7oz of dual purpose pad, MORE than worth it. (It is also one of the older Nitrogen Processed ones with lighter plastics than the new ones. Nunatak Luna is about the same as the older NightLights. Cut & tape.)

The foam adds stiffness and follows my hips pretty well while I walk, not something a rigid external frame does. It was very comfortable against my back/shoulders. It also allows a lot of shoulder swing in the pack. This keeps my shoulder and chest fairly comfortable despite carrying a full pack. (The load sort-of sways between your shoulder to your upper chest area, and, left to right, with every stride/arm swing. Not slipping, more of a load transfer.)

This lets me take a Kumo/Murmur at 23 pounds out for two weeks at a time. Note my food is usually about 1.1 to 1.2pounds per day. My base load was around 6 pounds (including the SVEA) and about 12oz of fuel…not quite SUL by the numbers.

As far as volume goes, the Kumo/Murmur is 23"x11"x4.5", or, 1138.5ci. I can get two dry bags in it. One for my bag/sleeping cloths, one for my food/bear bag. I also carry a small rock sack/ditty bag for odds & ends. My pot is just filled with my tarp. The fuel bottle/stove fits into one side pouch, two .5L water bottles in the other. The front pouch usually carries stuff I need for the day: snack, Steripen, rain jacket, map, compass, etc…

At night, everything has been used over the course of a day except the spare set of batteries for the steripen, spare line, spare stake. Sometimes, I will carry the Sven Saw if I know the trail needs work as well as needing a fire. This slips along one side or the other.

Anyway, the Gorilla is slightly larger and am considering it as a replacement for the older MiniPosa. I "should" be able to get two food bags in it, along with fishing gear, at a total weight of ~30-31 pounds, for three week unsupported trips. A good idea?

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