quadcopter/drones for backpacking (the future is coming)

Or, you could just stay at home and let it do your hike for you

Roger,
In my day, resignation was not an option for an enlisted man, and it is even less so now (repeated tours etc.) But I get your point.

Obviously if you have people on the ground you can't make them make a legal case against someone before shooting them

So, it's okay to have drones in Afganistan and maybe across the border into Pakistan (although Pakistan may not agree)

But what about other countries in the world – less clear

And rather than having so much military action we should use peaceful techniques like building roads and hospitals

Roger,

I think there is quite a difference between returning hostile fire vs "surgically" removing a single individual with a drone.

I can see it now…

some pimply kid in on vacation in Kabul with his family jokingly posts on Facebook that he has joined al-Qaeda. A CIA computer picks it up, identifies the ISP, tracks it to his cell phone, satellites in orbit lock onto the cell phone, a drone is launched, poof, no kid.

Far fetched? Maybe. But then I am in Colorado Springs, 1000 miles from home, posting with with a phone. Inconceivable to me 4 years ago.

What if we had these drones and policies in 1972? Would we have targeted Hanoi Jane? Many government officials thought so. Not saying she was right or wrong, but many called for her to be charged with treason. But today the President and military could be the judge, jury and executioner.

Scary. No due process.

I asked the following simple question:
'Imagine you are leading a US Army patrol in, say, Afganistan, patrol an area known to be threatened by Al-Quaeda. You come under fire. Are these 'legal experts' demanding that the patrol leader trot up to the enemy combatants to ask them 'Any of you chaps American?''

Imagine that US armed forces cannot return fire without first checking to see whether any of the hostiles are (or had been) American citizens. US solders in Afghanistan will get killed as a result (how many thousand body bags so far?).

Having been there recently — If shot at, the military can shoot back. If a European is observed wandering about but not firing a weapon, then that's of interest. Of course, the Taliban will have an interest too and you'd try to identify said non-native.

Bonus question following this one:
How many weeks will it be before every US soldier resigns from the US Army as a result?

FWIW, I can answer this having prepped reserve unit for Iraq deployment. In reality, once activated, there's no real resignations in lieu of deployment for US enlisted or officer anymore, except for some sort of verifiable hardship granted by a general (which may lead to a discharge as deployment is the job). Now the US military will process the resignation or discharge during the deployment, .. it will be waiting upon return from Afghanistan.

There's refusal to follow lawful orders but that's a military justice issue. Bottom line: A US troop is allowed lawful self-defense (to put it mildly…). Even with the new sights, if a combatant is putting some out effective fire, it will be returned –.

For my prize, can I get one of the foxier BPL girls wrapped in cuben fiber?

Add: There's some militarily neat things about "drones" but, IMO, there needs to be a clear-cut case the target is an actual combatant or terrorist. How do we define terrorist? Also, remember the rest of the world is catching up on this technology…

"Also, remember the rest of the world is catching up on this technology…"

Wise words, HK, as I suspect we will be finding out in the not too distant future.
What goes around, comes around….

"How do we define terrorist?"

Whoever the President says is a terrorist. In Dubbya's case you were either with us or agin' us. Somehow, I think Obama's approach is slightly more nuanced, but it still gives me the creeps that all the decisions are carried out within one branch of the government, in contravention of our cherished system of checks and balances. What happens if, in the future, we get another Dubya in office, when our drone system has become increasingly sophisticated……? Gotta go, I'm getting the shivers again.

And there is the case of the hapless Jose Padilla. They didn't incinerate him with a Hellfire missile, but they tossed him in the brig without formal charges, access to a lawyer, an appearance in court, etc, thereby demolishing the most bedrock principle of our legal system, habeas corpus.

"For my prize, can I get one of the foxier BPL girls wrapped in cuben fiber?"

Sorry, but Roger's an Australian. For your prize you get Franco Darioli wrapped up in silnylon….

.. Darioli wrapped up in silnylon….

Not really the answer I was looking for …

I'm not ashamed to admit that I like riding the bleeding edge of technology almost as much as I love backpacking.

Went backpacking/camping with some friends (definitely not ultralight this time)in Big Sur this past weekend. I brought along my new toy, a $35 Syma X1 quadcopter with a $50 808 #16 keychain camera attached to it.

It's not equipped with first person view gear(yet) so its not a 'drone' but I'm going to work on that over the next few months and should be able to get something setup that will allow me to see what the video camera sees out to about 500 yards and about 10 minutes of flight time and only add a few ounces to the entire setup. Right now with multiple extra batteries and a transmitter the whole thing weighs under a pound.

Here's a video I put together of the trip, be warned my choice of music might not be your cup of tea :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HRavgDv144&hd=1

I know that this kind of thing isn't for everyone, but the footage I'm going to be able to get makes it worth it for me. hopefully I wont get flamed too bad for this post :)

Seriously Tom? "What happens if we get another Dubya in office?" The guy we have now has expanded the programs of Dubya that you find offensive a hundred fold. Why would that be OK?

Really? How do you know? What you see is only a tiny tip of the iceberg. That's why they call it 'covert' ops in the first place. But it is fascinating to see the screeching hawks cooing like doves just looking for way to sink their claws into that guy you mentioned.

"Seriously Tom?"

Yes, Joe, very.

"The guy we have now has expanded the programs of Dubya that you find offensive a hundred fold. Why would that be OK?"

The things I found offensive about Dubya were not what you seem to think. You're absolutely right about Obama expanding the drone program a 100 fold, and I am against that as well, for a lot of reasons that probably belong in a separate thread.

No, what I found offensive about Dubya were his disastrous invasion of Iraq, the fallout of which is still unfolding, his needless antagonizing of Russia, his tax cuts in the midst of prosecuting 2 wars, the rendition program, torture, turning the NSA loose on the American citizenry, incarcerating Jose Padilla in a military prison without a lawyer or timely appearance in a court of law in violation of the bedrock principle of habeas corpus, to name a few of the most egregious things that happened on his watch. Sorry, I know you're from Texas and probably have a more positive opinion of Dubya, but I think he'll go down in history as the worst president this country this country has ever had.

I would say this will be the most important role for backpacking drones…

Well now, the beer drone changes everything.

Talk about winning hearts and minds.

"Talk about winning hearts and minds."

Not really. Due to the sequester, we can only afford to load the beer drone with Coors Light…..

That would be a tremendous waste of beer.

…Even Coors Light

"That would be a tremendous waste of beer.

…Even Coors Light"

When did they start calling Coors Light beer?

I don't know when it started, but I have run across a few people who consider it beer. Granted they were tongueless, alcoholic NASCAR mechanics… but they called it beer.

Corporate sponsorships make you say thing you don't really mean.

"I don't know when it started, but I have run across a few people who consider it beer. Granted they were tongueless, alcoholic NASCAR mechanics… but they called it beer."

Were they actually drinking it, or using it for brake fluid?

And here are some positive uses for drones on or near the trail:

Mapping the Matterhorn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2C_wXQ_lM

Dropping you some medical equipment: http://www.medgadget.com/2013/08/aed-drone.html

A friend is also working on something similar to this: http://appgondrones.wordpress.com/2013/04/11/drones-in-the-field-uavs-as-a-tool-for-clearing-mines/

And finally, to a more neutral use, on a recent packrafting trip drones were buzzing overhead at a couple of the rapids filming me and the rafting group ahead of me (at 0.53 and 1.05):

http://youtu.be/_npm7WjrWBQ

for better or worse they are certainly coming soon!

Soon, you won’t need to carry food on your trip, just a smart phone with Internet access.

Tacocopter, Flying Robots Deliver Tacos To Your Location. More from HuffPo. They claim to have Lobstercopter in the works for East Coast deliveries.

Hot on their heels (or blades) is Burrito Bomber, with a very similar business plan, and a “cheesy” video.

Berlin has Fly-A-Pizza.

London has sushi by drone, including a CNN video.

Domicopter delivers Domino’s pizza by drone. But watch out for unintended consequences!

Any day now …

— Rex

I just raced in the 50th Annual San Diego to Ensenada Yacht race and one of the magazines was running a Phantom over the starting line … then he was buzzing the pool and awards reception at the end … got to take a look at his setup … pretty sweet setup, especially with the monitor so he can see what he's filming … he had some stabilization control setup on the camera as well … you can see the monitor at the beginning of this video ….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu0nQPVLKBQ

> "Also, remember the rest of the world is catching up on this technology…"

You know, some (long) time ago I dimly remember a terrible uproar about another miltary development which was going to tear society apart if it was used. Well several of them, actually. It was claimed that they would so alter the nature of war that society would never recover. Peoples' lives, family structure, and our whole future would be destroyed.

What were these terrible developments? They include:

Steel swords
Plate armour
English long bow
Gunpowder
Machine gun
Nuclear bomb

War is simply a political strategy. How the war is fought is a minor almost irrelevant matter compared to the decision to go to war. With any technology in any theatre at any time, war means you are going to glory in killing the opposition while sweeping your own dead under the carpet – until after the war when all the pollies will line up for photo ops at the war memorial.

Cheers

Chemical and biological weapons?

"How the war is fought is a minor almost irrelevant matter compared to the decision to go to war."

Normally I more or less agree with a lot of things you say…but in relation to the above tell that to the Japanese after they were bombed with nuclear weapons.