So….how do you all feel about Oregon??

I don't trust the people, especially those in Seattle.

I have been to Seattle many times. It is always raining. Very little visibility. I find that depressing. Now the people in Seattle always brag about Mt. Ranier. But it doesn't exist. You can't see the supposed mountain from Seattle, because it is always raining. Ranier is an urban legend created by the Seattle visitor's bureau. I am sure of this. Oh, they will show you "PhotoShopped" pictures of Ranier.

But if you like to paint houses in the rain, re-roof houses in the rain, pour cement in the rain, or enjoy moss and fungus growing on your roof, then Seattle is for you. And if it isn't raining, it is overcast. Depressing. On the other hand, if you like rain then move to Alabama – they get a few more inches of rain than the gazillions in Seatte. Where I live, we measure annual rainfall in inches; in Seattle they measure annual rainfall in feet.

I enjoy the 360 sunny days per year where I live, plus some years we have zero measurable inches of rain. Makes backpacking shelter choices simple.

Inches of rain per year is a little deceiving. New York, Washington DC, Miami, New Orleans, Atlanta, Boston, Tampa, Houston, Hartford, etc. all get more inches per year than Seattle. That being said, Seattle does get some of the most rainy days per year, it just drizzles a lot instead of pours (Seattle is also one of the cloudiest cities). We're a little better off down here in Portland, but not by much. That being said, I go backpacking 20-30 nights a year in Oregon/Washington, and rarely get rained on during those trips (the PNW summers are some of the best on earth). Aside from tax cheats and legal weed, I agree with Chris, stay away from Vancouver…

"people in Seattle always brag about Mt. Ranier. But it doesn't exist. You can't see the supposed mountain from Seattle"

LOL.

I always see Rainer when I go to Seattle. From 31,000 feet. Maybe that's why they make Boeings there? So they could have a view?

Truthfully it isn't the rain that is hard about spring and early summer in the PNW. It's two things:

(1) the low-level grayish-white "ceiling" of clouds. This is what, in my opinion, is sometimes a little depressing. Everyone gets used to the rain, but coming from the mid-west with big open skies can take some adjustment.

(2) the late snow melt-off. When the rest of the country has dry (maybe too-dry!) trails, we are still waiting (and waiting) for forest roads and THs to melt-out. The thick forests here keep the snow from melting until well into July. If you are coming from another part of the country, where kids are in tank tops and shorts by late March, this can take some adjustment.

HOWEVER, we DO have green grass and trees, even in winter. We don't have the dry brown grass and trees that the rest of the country has. We do have the Pacific Ocean an hour+ away. We do have skiing a hour+ away from both Portland and Seattle. We have great fireroads and trails for snowshoeing and cross-country. And, like Tommy said, we have the best summer weather, from around mid-July to late October.

And we do have an airport (the best in the country is Portland, in my humble opinion) with cheap(ish) flights to CA, HA or Las Vegas if you need a little sun!

By the way, don't listen to everyone about Portland. It is actually more than 12 square blocks around the Willamette. If I was single and young, I'd want to live in the Pearl District or Inner Eastside, too. But there are wonderful normal people who live around the city, towards Beaverton and North Portland and SE. It just depends on what you want for your life.

Having just moved to Seattle and grown up in the sunny southwest, one way to handle the grey is to live with a view. I am looking out on the Puget Sound and snow capped Olympics now. You pay for a view in housing cost, but the grey does not get to you near as much, from what I have found.

>"And we do have an airport (the best in the country is Portland, in my humble opinion) with cheap(ish) flights to CA, HA or Las Vegas if you need a little sun!"

Steven: Good point, I've noticed that myself many times. I fly about 80,000 miles a year and PDX is big enough for many carriers, routes, and services but you can walk from every gate to any other. Other points:

Free wifi (which they had when SEA, SFO, and OAK did not – they proved to be trendsetters in that).

Great on-site parking (electronic monitoring directs you to levels and aisles with empty spots).

On-site (RIGHT ON SITE! – one skybridge from the terminal) rental car pick-up and return. Who the heck offers that anymore? Everyone is moving rental-car facilities a shuttle-bus ride away.

The "Red Line" light rail has a station just off of baggage claim and it takes you downtown and to various neighborhoods.

In-town pricing for goods and services. As part of their lease, merchants can't charge more than in-town counterparts. So the concourses are actually reasonable places to shop while departing or connecting. Powell's is a great local bookstore and has two stores at PDX. There's a good toy store, a pretty good shoe store, etc, etc.

Other things being close, I strongly prefer PDX to SEA for connections. Something I do once or twice a month.

I will fault PDX for there being NO service stations ANYWHERE near the airport for refilling rental cars. And then there's Oregon's evil policy dis-allowing self-serve filling stations.

I am simply loving this thread!!!!!

I would very much like to move to a smallish town – I do love a thriving college town. Honestly, setting aside politics and such, I would rather be in a town of brilliant conservatives (insert red-blue joke here…) than thoughtless liberals. An intellectual purple state would be perfect.

I have these great dreams of seeing patients a few days a week, and the rest of the time sit on my porch and read a book, take a hike, ride my bike, snowshoe, XC ski, run, kayak, play with my dog…all while smelling fresh green foliage, mountain air, listening to a stream…

David said: "And then there's Oregon's evil policy dis-allowing self-serve filling stations."

Evil?
creating jobs- evil?

You WANT to get out of your car in the cold and rain to pump gas?

hmmm… I prefer to sit tight in my warm car, pass my debit throught the tinest slit in the window, then drive off after recieving gas and card back.

Its only evil till you've done it a few times, then it makes perfect sense.

And don't pull the "It ain't cold down there, Dave!" ;)

>"I have these great dreams of seeing patients a few days a week, and the rest of the time sit on my porch and read a book, take a hike, ride my bike, snowshoe, XC ski, run, kayak, play with my dog…all while smelling fresh green foliage, mountain air, listening to a stream…"

We do that – work 3 days a week each. It's being on the good side of two balances: higher professional wages in the sticks and lower property costs. Also, you can go to work in your Carrhartts or Patagonia, so you save all expenses of a professional wardrobe. Also, professional don't move to small towns to make a ton of money (although we squirrel away far more money each year than our peers in metropolitan areas). They come for the gorgeous scenery or recreational venues or tasty critters. Therefore they respect their co-workers needs/desires to take time off. I see much more flexible working arrangements here than in CA.

Also, in a small town, the smart PTs, RNs, school teachers, etc, mix it up with the physicians, authors, and artists more than in the big city. My smartest friend in town is an ex-cop. In the big city, I wouldn't have met him because I'd be hanging only with other engineers and my wife's physician peers.

I despise oregon and their not self pump. You should have the choice. Let the market decide!

Michael: My approach on WA-CA trips was to gas up in Vancouver, WA and again in Redding, CA. When popping into OR from Seattle, I'd fill-up so as to avoid any need to in OR.

I've done this in 48 other states, 23 other countries, am a decent plumber, and a pretty experienced engineer (mostly in cleaning up spilled petroleum products). But in OR (and NJ), I'm not qualified to pump gasoline while the pimple-faced teen texting on his phone, is?!?

Okay, I am older than most of you and I worked in gas stations when self serve started…

Prior to the gas embargo of 1973 nearly 100% of all gas stations in the U.S. were full service. Oh, and most of the station attendants wore white shirts, bow ties, and a hat.

After '73 gas prices started to shoot up. And gas consumption started to decline. In a effort to gain market share, some gas station owners started offering self-service gas on one island and full service gas on the others. This allowed them to lower the self service gas prices, and reduce the overhead by reducing staff.

The public started buying self service gas in greater numbers. Eventually the demand was for self service gas.

At my last gas station, in 1998, we offered full service gas on one island and self service gas on the other three. We sold about 200 gallons a day on the full service islands and 10,000 gallons on the self service.

The public voted their preference with their dollars.

Yet the more we had self serve, the higher the price….

I fill up in Oregon before I go to Washington because it's cheaper

I will sometimes just do it myself in Oregon – don't let the fire marshall know

The first time I tried to pump my own gas in NJ (I was unaware of the rule), the attendant about ripped my head off.

You guys crack me up! Who cares who pumps your gas? Its not like ORE lawmakers dont think your gas pumping skills are up to par. (dont cut the mustard? LOL)

Just sit in your car and get your gas pumped- whats the big deal?

The only thing that sucks about it is when you go to Washington and forget you gotta pump your own gas and you sit in your car cussing the attendant for 10min, only to realize they've seen your license plate and they're laughing AT YOU.

Nick: Green stamps and Blue Chip stamps also went away. And free water glass and presidential coins and those brown mugs from Shell that looked like someone had drooled white goo on the rim. And the 76 styrofoam balls to stick on your antenna. And free road maps, free air, the oil checked and the window cleaned! An era in which a 2-ton car could be filled up for $3.

I suspect NONE of these will return.

Jeffs: While I have tremendous sympathy for people with 4 functioning limbs who won't care for themselves (not!), I remain unconvinced that "let's-employ-our-least-employable" is good public policy. In some OR stations, they ONLY pump. Leaving me to walk to the kiosk, pay the person behind bullet-proof glass, get a chit from them, find a pump jockey, give him the chit, let him put the pump in my fill pipe and walk away, wait some more for him to return, get a scribbled-on chit, go back to the kiosk, wait in line, get my change, and only then continue on my way. Perhaps you have stations found that provide better customer service, but in 48 other states, self service is exactly what I expect it to be and anyone can use it if they are willing to walk 10 feet to a pump and 10 feet back.

The vast majority of times I've had mini-serve gas, I get what I pay for, but a few times attendants have attempted to overcharge or short me. Unamazingly, that's never happened when I pump my own gas.

But I'm an equal-opportunity prick on this kind of thing. If a thief, skycap, bellhop, or third-world cabbie tries to take my bags without my permission, they get the stink eye and/or a elbow to ribs. White, black, brown, rich, poor, uniformed, or in mufti; only take my property if you have my permission.

"You guys crack me up! Who cares who pumps your gas? Its not like ORE lawmakers dont think your gas pumping skills are up to par. (dont cut the mustard? LOL)

Just sit in your car and get your gas pumped- whats the big deal?"

Because the manpower to pump the gas increases the variable operating costs of the business, requiring the owner to charge more money for a gallon of gas.

"Green stamps and Blue Chip stamps also went away. And free water glass and presidential coins and those brown mugs from Shell that looked like someone had drooled white goo on the rim. And the 76 styrofoam balls to stick on your antenna. Free road maps, free air, the oil checked and the window cleaned"

Well, as you know, those weren't free. The owner had to buy them and charge more for gas. During the shortage the FIRST thing we did was get rid of the trading stamps. It wasn't long until S&W and Blue went out of business. Actually the oil company gave us the maps until that time. When they started charging us, we started charging the customer. We had to buy the glasses and other trinkets.

In addition to what nick said.

I hate it because I don't like waiting several minutes on the idiot. The I get treated quite rudely because I got sick of waiting on the guy and started it myself.

Guy gets a garunteed job and is lazy. It's symbolic of the issues our country faces.

Nick: Oh, I get it. I'm glad to see the market go to more efficient models. If I want 1.0 pounds of hamburger, I'll grab the pre-wrapped package and only bother the butcher if I need exactly 17.3 ounces for some bizarre reason. Picking out my own bolts at Home Depot makes them cheaper for me but also lets me double-check some fit or design issue beforehand. Booking my own flights lets me look at ALL the options AND saves labor costs.

About once a year, we'll go to some real fancy restaurant where the waiter will lovingly unfold my napkin and place it carefully above my genitals. I grit my teeth and hope he's enjoying the process more than I am. Maybe that's why I'm in Alaska. To quote Heinlein: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Because the manpower to pump the gas increases the variable operating costs of the business, requiring the owner to charge more money for a gallon of gas

So true. But that is also looking at the elephant up close through a limiting window.

Many factors influence the price. Today is Jan 24, 2013 and the most recent report I can find has statewide average gas prices just very slightly more expensive in WA than in OR (essentially the same).

Other factors influencing gasoline cost:

State gasoline tax, OR's is $0.30 and WA's is $0.375 … 25% higher

Sales tax, OR appears to have no sales tax … WA's varies but is 6.5% or more

Level of competition in the supply chain is a factor, as is local retail competition.

Of course, each of us is entitled to make choices not on $$ alone but on principles that are important to us.

BTW, the correlation between current state gasoline tax and current statewide average gasoline price is 0.0188 … positive but essentially zero.

Guy gets a garunteed job and is lazy.

Not quite. That there is a job there IS guaranteed … that a any particular person gets and keeps that job is optional.

Jim that's what I'm saying. It's a job invented and kept solely in place by govt. pisses me off like garunteed jobs unions keep.

I like true competition.

Michael, you need to go out hiking more and smell the pine trees rather than garumping every time you see someone that isn't working as hard as you think they should : )

I know Man. The thread just brought back my irritation from this summer on my trip through Oregon.