2 or 3 person snowtrekker tent? They are $1k each so I don’t really want BOTH :-(

Spend the money on quality clothing and sleeping bag. If you want something heated why not rent a cabin or hotel and day trip?

You're looking to winter camp around Tahoe/Yosemite. It's not the Arctic. Not even cold compared to other parts of the country.

Pretty much what Ken said…

"You're looking to winter camp around Tahoe/Yosemite. It's not the Arctic. Not even cold compared to other parts of the country."

Some of us were leading a beginner snow camping trip in Yosemite's Westfall Meadow about thirty years ago, and we instructed each beginner to bring a sleeping bag good for +10F or better. That night the temperature got to about -10F, so the frost was on the pumpkin.

Rather than using a hot tent, it is better to choose your tentmate carefully.

–B.G.–

I guess that's a good point. I don't REALLY need the hot tent but it just looks SO inviting to be able to retire into a warm tent for 4 hours until it's time for sleep.

It seems cool to be able to be inside a tent that is 70 degrees while it is -10 out… Further, if you go with 2 or more people you can just relax inside and chat.

Though my first treks will probably be by myself.

Maybe I will just buy a winter tarp …

If you are good, you can make a tarp shelter work.

Each year around April, a buddy and I ski in near Carson Pass and sleep a night. Tarp shelters will work (this is a Betamid), but you really need a good wind wall made with snow blocks. So, the sleeping bag level ends up being about a foot or more below grade. It is really quite comfortable as long as:

(1) Dress properly.
(2) Stay absolutely dry.
(3) Don't exhaust yourself completely on the journey in.
(4) Take a sleeping bag with a rating about 10 degrees warmer than what you really need.
(5) Get everything built, then allow your sleeping bag plenty of time to fluff up before the weather gets too cold.

–B.G.–

I think you're setting up a false dichotomy here and missing the happy middle ground.

This shouldn't be a choice between a 2-3 lbs regular tent, or a $1000, 20 lbs canvas 'hot tent'. You don't need to lug anywhere near that kind of weight to 'hot tent'. If you don't already own a suitable tent, grab yourself a nice silnylon pyramid (ie. Black Diamond MegaLight, MLD SuperMid etc) and toss a stove jack and stove in it.

For example, this winter I've removed the inner tent from my TarpTent StratoSpire2 (-16oz), added a stove jack (+4oz) and a cylinder stove from TiGoat (+23oz) for a total weight increase of 11oz over my summer setup in exchange for a hot tent. A wood stove isn't essential in the winter, but it is mandatory if I want my wife to make it out, and it's pretty nice with the long dark evenings.

>It seems cool to be able to be inside a tent that is 70 degrees while it is -10 out.<

Hey ah, 70 degrees doesn't cut it for me. At about 2 am I like to get the wood stove so hot that I have to open the door and stand there in my underwear while snow flakes cool me off.

But it is a bunch of stuff to haul. Pulk? maybe, more like a 10 foot toboggan. The small tent is 8'x 10' and leaves about 8' x 7' after the stove. So you could fit three people pretty easily if need be. So I would suggest the small tent unless you know you have people who will go. Spend some time reading at wintertrekking.com if you haven't already.

Also, these small wood stoves need to be fed about every 45 min. So once you are asleep it is just as cold as cold camping. If you have lots of people, everyone can hang out in the hot tent in the evening and then retire to their small tents a bed time. Lots of fun.

I think the issue here is the fire hazard. Silnylon + fire isn't a good idea.

Is this a common setup or are you a one off? Camping with fire+silnylon doesn't seem like a good idea.

There are a lot of outfits that make silnylon hot tents: Kifaru, Tigoat, Seekoutside and Wyominglostandfound to name a few. It might be worth looking at their products. Kifaru's Sawtooth tent with a small stove is tempting but too expensive for me. The tent is 4.8 lbs, stove is another 4 lbs.

You really don't need a canvas tent for using a stove. Check out Kirafu, they make sil nylon tents that are stove compatible. You might want to do something DIY. A sturdy winter tent with a stove jack would be an awesome winter shelter.

You mentioned just bringing a "winter tarp"? Do you mean a flat tarp? I can tell you that sleeping in an open tarp with a stove will not work. You need a big, open fire for that. A stove will only keep you nice and warm if it's inside an enclosed shelter.

In normal circumstances, there isn't a fire hazard with nylon or sil nylon. It's not going to burst into flames unless it has direct contact with flames. What happens is the firewood pops and sends sparks into the air. If those sparks fly into thin nylon, it can create tiny little holes. This isn't an issue with a stove because it's closed off but is an issue with an open fire.

If you are camping with an open fire to heat your tarp shelter, you should have a cheap or cheapish tarp. It will get a few holes over time but you can just patch it up. You will get decent life out of it considering the cost. You are also going to want a cheap bivy (i am going to experiment with tyvek) to block any sparks from getting to your expensive down sleeping bag.

The amount of sparks flying around depends on the type of wood. I have slept extremely close to a fire with oak wood and there were no pops or sparks. On the other hand, I have slept next to a lot of large fires using coastal redwood and that stuff pops like crazy. I had a coal, about double the size of a quarter, fly through the air from about 5 feet away and land right in between my feet. It burnt straight through my poncho liner and all the way to the ground through my thermarest z-lite.

While you have to stoke a stove constantly, if you make a big, long log fire and stoke it right, you might not have to feed it again for several hours. If you do it enough, you pretty much start sleepwalking over to the wood pile and fall asleep instantly when you get back in your bag.

"Sparks on a Nylon Tent". Sounds like the title of a novel. I just don't like the idea of wood stoves & chimneys anywhere near a nylon tent, silnylon or urethane coated nylon.

If I want to "hot tent" I'll use lightweight cotton tenting.

Sounds like a light nylon with a PU FR coat, rather than silicone, would be a lot safer. I have not seen a silnylon tent go up, but a friend did, from embers floating up from a campfire. Poof! When I open the stove door at home, there are often a few embers that pop out and drop onto the hearth, and occasionally on a ballistic trajectory all the way to the wooden floor.

Searched a bit, and could not find coated Nomex, although the material can be as light as 2.5 osy. That would be ideal for the area around the stovepipe.

Hey Dan,

Your winter tent setup got me thinking. I never knew it would be such a minor net increase of weight to have a lightweight shelter with a wood burning stove. I don't much about stove jacks and haven't given it too much thought, but now I'm intrigued. What do you do when it's time to go back to 3-season? Is the stove jack sealable so that your tent fly is back and ready for rain action? I always though stove jacks were more or less a permanent addition, but again I don't know much about them. Do you have a system in place where you can swap back and forth between stove-ready and and rain-ready?

Thanks!

Well even if you install a stove jack on a tarp it isn't TOO big of an issue to just have two of them.

A tarp is only about $100-200 even for the best tarps so just have two.

I think I might just install a stove jack on a Warbonnet Superfly tent. I can use it with my hammock but I can also hot tent it inside.

I had it happen once to my synthetic pants.

It made a nice little hole.. if that is all I have to deal with , small holes, thats fine.

It also seems like a wire mesh on the chimney could keep large bits from flying out.

My ~3.5oz stove jack is from BearPaw Wilderness Designs ($30), and it comes with a silnylon cover that velcro's on when you're not using the stove jack. It looks like it'll be pretty good in the rain. If any rain gets thru the velcro, it's still gotta get through the waterproof stove jack material too so I feel good about it. I'd actually even feel good without the silnylon cover in everything but high winds that could lift up the flap to let horizontal rain in.

I'll try to get some pics, but I haven't actually used the stove yet – I've been so busy with school this fall, but I finished exams today so I'm heading out for a few days this week.

So $30 (stove jack) + $240 (TiGoat cylinder stove w 4.5' pipe) and an 11oz penalty gets me a hot tent in the winter and only a 3.5oz penalty in the summer.

This is the TiGoat version. 3.5oz, $40
(will be a bit lighter once the pipe hole is cut from it)

I doubt it will get you to 70 degrees but wax in a buddy burner has high BTU, I read almost as much as propane. The wider diameter the can, the more heat it will put out, and the more wax you will burn. You have to pack wax and feed it and of course vent the tent. You would probably go through 4-8 oz of wax a night for a tuna can size. They also put out great light and flame to add some cheer in the dark winter. Make sure you put it outside before you snuff it because it smokes really bad then.

Make sure you put it outside before you snuff it because it smokes really bad then.

maybe there is a way around that.
The way to snuff out a candle without smoke is simply to wet your thumb and forefinger and squeeze the flame out.
(try it if you are not familiar with this. Not for the klutzy type…)
So maybe with the Buddy Burner you could avoid the smoke when snuffing out if you use a lid that can be put over the can quickly and without leaving air gaps.
Nothing too tight just enough to seal the top …
Mind you not that I would recommend an open flame like that inside the tent, klutzy , emotionally tired or otherwise.
(you know, there is wise and otherwise)

well, I just answered my own question.
Yes it does work.
I put some cardboard and olive oil in the tuna can and set it alight.
Make sure that the cardboard is under the rim line
I then put the pot lid quickly on top of the can , it snuffed the flame instantly (lack of oxygen)

Now the trick is to leave the lid there because there is smoke inside the can.
However this allows you to let the can cool down before you move it outside to let the smoke out.

Greetings

I have used both the Tigoat tent and the Snowtrekker tent

LOVE the Snowtrekker tent.  Doesnt get the holes from the stove like the nylon!!!

Most of your responses are folks that have NO CLUE about a pulk or tobaggan

i carry the Snowtrekker Crew 2 man and own the Basecamp as well.  I would suggest you go with the lighter model on snowshoe trips

i taught wilderness survival at the University Of Alaska and had my own school.  Check out JackMountain Bushcraft for great info: Tim is a friend of mine

the wall tent is a different pace and different  to camp.

if you want a long lasting shelter that holds its resale value go with the canvas!!  Not nylon

also: i get a 4 hour burn out of my woodstove : add rock and wood around the stove for thermal mass heat absorption and you get to sleep 4-5 hours on cold night before restocking the stove

nothing like hot tenting!!!

if you’re gonna pulk it: go with the two man tent-plenty of room  in there

@ Patrick

This is an old thread oriented toward winter camping in the Sierra Nevada.

There have been multiple other threads here at BPL about stoves and stove jacks in various types of shelters for hot tenting in colder climes especially from the Alaskan BPLer. Naturally, those threads have mostly focused on getting the lightest stove possible. :-)

Lot’s of people use a Silnylon Hot tent. Be careful, and be prepared for pinholes.

However, it is not the same experience as a canvas tent. So much more condensation accumulates in the synthetic tent.

As far as water to use a hot tent or not, I think it is misleading to tell the OP that he doesn’t need one. The question wasn’t water one was required to do a certain trip or not, it was which size to get. It is simply another option for winter camping. Different style of trip. I’d say, the synthetic hot tent is a third option, fitting in between the two other styles.

I would 100% get the 3 person Snowtrekker. In for a penny, in for a pound. Either way, it is not a lightweight set up, and best suited to a basecamp style trip, so the extra weight is not an insurmountable obstacle.

It will give you the extra space that is nice to hang out in the tent for long times (which is what it is best for), as well as opening up options to go on 3 person trips with it, or even 4 or 5 person trips, where you all hang out in the wall tent, then 3 people sleep in separate lightweight tents.

I apologize for weighing in so late but I just stumbled across this tread. I have a foot in both worlds. In the summer, I love to backpack and incorporate many lessons learned from this site. In the winter when weight is a bit less of an issue, I love to pull my pulk into a local wilderness area, set up my Snowtrekker Shortwall 3P tent as a base-camp and enjoy a multi-day winter stay with day-trip outings. I opted for the 3P because I wanted my daughters to occasionally join me on these treks. I find a 3P is large for a solo trip but perfect for two with cots. I have a Four-Dog Ti stove and spend my evenings warm and dry. And the tent isn’t just for snow camping. Last weekend, I was out trying capture the night stars on camera next to the John Day River and enjoyed use of both the tent and stove in a non-snow car-camping trip.  Both perform wonderfully in either scenario.

By day

By night under a Super Moon

My cozy den

And you’ll never go hungry as the food options are never-ending

Cheers,

Bill