REI currently working on new return policies

[Joe Clement]

The forever return policy might work for Backcountry, since you'd have to ship everything back to them. That would knock a bunch of returns out. Unless I'm confused, and Backcountry has brick and mortar stores now.

[M B]

I would not term it "abuse". Their policy is clearly worded, and nobody has to lie, or use deceit to take advantage of it.

Personally I think it is what their whole business is built around. When you buy from REI you generally pay full price, 10-20% more than at a deep discount retailer. Part of this may be because they have real stores with overhead, and some online vendors dont. However, using simple math, if the average item sells for 15% more than otherwise, they could come out ahead if less than 1 in 7 persons return that item.

Retailers dont necessarilly eat all of returns either. The manufacturers take open package returns back in most cases. The line is probably drawn somewhere, but where I have no idea. If it passes for barely used, it may go back to mfg.

[Sam Farrington]

"I bet many people take unreasonable advantage."

Jerry, the son of a close friend informed me that he spent no money on clothing – just wore Bean's stuff for six months, and returned it for exchange with various trumped up claims of defects. He was quite proud of this, and was probably exaggerating a bit. But a lot of it was probably true.

Of course retailers have to protect themselves from this kind of thing if they want to stay in business. I bought a WPB pullover shell from Bean's years ago for a long backpack that wetted out and was next to worthless after just a few days. They did refund the price. But I'd have been better off with a higher quality shell in the first place. I think the companies with a good reputation for customer service will strike a fair balance, and the others will not, no matter what their so-called policies say. Policy-making is much over-rated (along with the pundits who go on about it). You have to get down in the weeds and analyze the problem, and make changes specifically tailored to correct what is not working well.

[Alex Eriksson]

It's probably a lot better than that on the REI accounting side of things, so it's definitely worth arguing from a "it's probably not as bad as it seems" standpoint indeed. Here's why….

Outdoor equipment, at least the major brands sold by REI, typically list for 45-55% of the retail price. Indeed, if REI sells an item at $100 they likely only spend $50 to acquire it to sell, meaning they're breaking even, at least from an inventory cost perspective, by simply selling one for every one that comes back. Even with inventory taxes, sales, and costs associated with personnel to sell said equipment (i.e. all the overhead sunk costs), they're still probably doing quite well.

So yeah, while it's clearly stated that you can bring the stuff back and if they make an offer they can't be disappointed when people use the system to its fullest, I think a lot of people feel like the practice is similar to the person you invite to a party who drinks all the booze, or eats all the cookies, or really does make themselves feel at home. You say it to be polite and offer the majority of people with shame the option to be more comfortable, but you don't expect lots of people to really take full advantage of the offer.

[Kier Selinsky]

Yeah, we all see the obvious abuse dumped in bins at the garage sale, but let's keep this in perspective…

REI has been in business for decades, maintaining prices that are mostly competitive in their market. Clearly, if the abuse was rampant, such a change would have happened years ago. Maybe it's finally reaching a threshold. Maybe it's the same as it's always been but the margins are coming down. But the business simply wouldn't be around to contemplate the change if the problem was widespread.

[Don Abernathey]

I don't think you understand the business side of things. REI isn't a cash cow for a bunch of investors. Abuse of REI's return policy by a bunch of gen-X low-lifes can run the coopt into the ground.

[Scott Nelson]

I used to work at REI for two stints long ago. A favorite story was the "Golden Shoe Award" that a store gave to an Assistant Mgr. He struggled with returning abused stuff, but would grit his teeth and take it back. The Store Manager took some ratty old returned shoe, spray painted it gold and gave it to him for doing what the company wanted. That is a core part of their business- I would be surprised if they changed it. The stuff in the garage sales is stuff that REI couldn't, or wouldn't send back to the manufacturers for credit. Man, did the employees score some sweet deals digging thru the boxes before the customers did….

[Matt Dirksen]

Don't blame this on gen-x. People have been abusing the return policy since the moment they created it. As a former REI employee during most of the 90's, I was always amazed at how some things came back. The policy is simply a "100 Percent Customer Satisfaction" policy. It has never been about the stuff, but about how the customer felt.

Of course, that philosophy is likely the primary reason why they are still a big player in the outdoor retail industry. If it were to change for some reason, I wouldn't be surprised if they were to reinstate it when sales start to tank.

We shall see…

[And E]

I love REI, and visit my Seattle flagship store atleast once a week (don't always buy something, but fun to look!). I have always been pleased with the service and product support they offer. I'm amazed they've been able to continue offering the 100% satisfaction guarantee during these hard economic times. I won't feel betrayed if they change their policy, as i feel they will strike a good balance if they do. Its upsetting seeing some of the products that come back, shoes worn until the soles are gone and returned because they were "uncomfortable." Yes, the return policy says 100% satisfaction guaranteed, but please, be a decent human being. Oh, my favorite reason I saw for returning an item after much use:

It says "no padding, didn't like logo" …no padding in a tent… really…

[And E]

Anybody watch the Dilbert animated cartoon back when it aired? In an episode, it explains dilbert's dad has been at an all you can eat restaurant for years on end without once leaving because he wanted to know if it was truly all you can eat. People who abuse the return policy because it says 100% satisfaction guaranteed remind me of Dilbert's dad in that episode.

[Alex Eriksson]

Hilarious excuse. That's pretty ridiculous. The worst I've heard from an employee was from a guy who fell asleep with his boots next to the campfire and melted the soles completely off the boots. Brought them back and demanded another pair, which of course they obliged him with.

The garage sales are great for picking up Exped mats I've discovered, especially those with the integrated pump. A lot of people (sadly my girlfriend included) can't seem to master the idea that your hand has to seal the intake opening as you press down on the foam otherwise the air blasts back out the way it came in, and you never get the mat to inflate. I saw a SynMat UL and a DownMat UL at the last REI garage sale that both said "pump broken" and after some inspection it was clear they just didn't know how to use it. Too bad I'm all Exped mat'ed up and didn't need another (nor did anyone I know).

[James holden]

if they change it theres no reason to buy REI … you can usually find the stuff for less online with free shipping …

[Phillip Asby]

I do a decent amount of shopping at REI as I and my wife are also cyclists – and my wife does triathlons – so they cover a lot of bases for us. I shop sales and clerance mostly and find those prices pretty good. As a newbie camper/backpacker I also like being able to see stuff – talk to real people about products – try things on – etc… While the brick and mortar for many industries may be shrinking rapidly – outdoor provisions is one area where many people (albeit not very many on this site) do still need and value a bit of expertise and being able to touch/feel/try on stuff. A lot of new and weekend campers don't have the knowledge to buy online and pick the right stuff – it is a puzzling and overwhelming world for a newbie – trust me I know.

There is a smaller independent shop here in town that sells at roughly the same prices as REI – that continues to do well or at least well enough to keep the doors open. Any time I'm in there it has a decent amount of foot traffic. It is enough of a specialty kind of like a bike shop – that the brick and mortar model will continue to work.

I'll keep shopping there if they modify the return policy – particularly if it is solely to limit it to 6 months or a year from purchase. I'll know pretty quickly if something is defective (like the small leatherman I bought there about 2 months ago and am returning) or if it just doesn't fit/work…

[Dena Kelley]

This comment: "Abuse of REI's return policy by a bunch of gen-X low-lifes can run the coopt into the ground."

Nice. I'm one of those Gen X lowlifes you're insulting there. Got any facts to back that up?

[Joe Clement]

It's been my experience that being a lowlife transcends generations. But not families. Kind of like being stupid.

[Edward Z]

Well said Joe

[Don Abernathey]

Are you confessing or asking? I'm confused…

Some people are basically dishonest with the return policy. I guess somehow they justify it by imagining that REI is somehow a Haliburton or related to Bush.

And I think I am mistaken – I think it should be Gen-Y.

I wouldn't blame REI in the least for modifying the return policy – no reason for them to absorb the cost of this form of shoplifting.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Sounds like pure rumor to me. I've always assumed that REI doesn't return items to the manufacturer and gets a deal in the process— pure speculation on my part.

My favorite gear garage sighting was a pair of 17 year old Vasque Sundowner boots, still in excellent condition, that were returned because they no longer fit. Many adults would change a shoe size in a 17 year period.

The descriptions on the return tags are a book in themselves: two sleeping bags, both the same model, one marked "not warm enough," and of course, the other marked "too warm." Goldilocks shops at REI.

I like to imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger as an REI customer service clerk: "Vat? It iss too colt? You cannot climb zee mountains undt be a girlie man!" {{{SLAP}}} {{{SLAP}}}

[Alex Eriksson]

I do think Gen X, statistically, would be more appropriate than Gen Y. The sheer burdensome cost of outdoor equipment means any real lowlife ne'er-do-well will likely not buy something at REI to begin with. Plus, have you been in an REI lately? It's like an ethnically un-diverse GORP blend of childless yuppies with loads of disposable income, newly be-child'ed yuppies, and retirees.

Mind you I'm not saying the "it's Gen ____ argument" has any merit to begin with, this was simply an excuse to post on how much I tend to loathe the patronage inside REI's. ;-)

Oh and if anyone's wondering I clearly fit into the first group of childless yuppie. Though I've only returned one used item (an REI tent) because it had a rainfly that, when the vestibule was unzipped, dumped water directly onto the mesh door (Half Dome T2+).

[Dan Quixote]

I may be getting the wrong conclusions from this conversation, but you all are making me feel pretty good about returning shoes I've had for 2+ years that I simply never liked enough to wear out, even if I've worn all the new off of them.

and if a policy change is really in the works, I better hurry! ;)

[Pete Staehling]

Some would say that I abuse the REI return policy, but I don't think I do. I do take advantage of it where I feel it is appropriate. I figure that I pay more to buy from REI specifically because of the easy return policy (and dividend policy). I have returned a number of pieces of gear that either just didn't work out for me despite having no flaw or that I felt failed prematurely. I do draw the line at returning things that wore out after a normal amount of usage.

They set the policy and set their prices accordingly. If they make a really big change in that policy in a way that impacts my returns and do not lower prices I will spend less there than I currently do. They are not usually the cheapest place to get any given item. If they tighten the policy in a way that does not stop the types of returns that I have made then it would not affect my loyalty, but .

Their whole relationship with their customers is based on the return policy and the dividend policy. Trimming back on either will change that relationship. My guess is that they are doing fine and will make no changes in the near future.

I suspect that there is a pretty small percentage of really blatant cases that rise to the level of abuse and that those actually wind up being worth it to REI in the form of good will. Even folks who will never return an item still are likely to buy from REI due to the fact that REI will allow them to return an item at any time for any reason.

[Paul Magnanti]

So far all we have is one post. Is there anything concrete at this point confirming this policy change?

[Mary D]

All we have in this thread is one rumor from "a very good source" and we get three pages of comments! Nor have I seen this pop up on any other forums I check, even from those I know are REI employees. (Of course, generally with management issues, the employees are the last to know….)

Maybe we should all calm down until we have confirmation?

[Kier Selinsky]

What's with all the hate for Gen-X or Gen-Y? If you've got enough time to sit around getting all judgmental on arbitrary groupings, you probably need either:
A) a job
B) a hobby
C) more of either A or B

Now go get off your lazy rears

[Josh Lee]

I have returned several things to REI and I don't think I abuse the policy.

I haven't returned any items that have seen excessive use that couldn't be resold at a garage sale.

With clothing I will always try it on first and maybe even wear it out once before removing tags so if I do return it can be resold as new.

I have also returned a couple of items that were defective that could be sent back to the manufacturer.

The main reason I started shopping at REI is I am relatively new to the hobby and I had no real way of knowing what gear would work for me until I took it out and tried it. A friend who was an employee at the time recommended them for this reason as I could start out with basics and upgrade over time. Items like backpacks and sleeping pads are the kind of thing that you really won't know what you are getting until you've had it out for a few days. If it doesn't fit or I don't like it I will return it, in as good a condition as I can so it can be resold. Also I bought some lower quality gear that I upgraded over time by returning and purchasing something better.

I also do my best to buy a replacement product at REI which means I usually end up spending more at the store than I did on the return and I usually ask for store credit rather than cash back.

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