Nov 9, 2012 at 8:18 pm #1927439AnonymousInactive
"Still free at other forums. We did this to ourselves, the forum users. Keep on saying that the real value here at BPL is in the forums. Many have said that they don't get value out of the articles here. So what is RJ going to do?, capitalize on that and turn it into something he can charge for. Like the strategic planning "retreat".
And had the MLifers been receiving the interim reports and updates of BPL, like we paid for, this might have all been prevented if someone did not have a colossal ego and could accept help from a community that offered it time and time again.
Sad to see this."
What does this have to do with stopping the SPAM?Nov 9, 2012 at 9:12 pm #1927443
Well Tom. People saw problems coming for years. Some had offered help. Some don't even get a reply. Other forums continue on without charging, still during this global, all encompassing spam attack .
So charging to post must not be the only option.
And, please no need to yell spam, I'm tired too.
Almost forgot, Had the Mlifers received their info they would have been even better informed. And in a better position to help. Isn't that what that strategic planning forum is supposed to do? Solve BPL problems for Ryan? This would be a good one to solve.Nov 10, 2012 at 1:23 am #1927458Alex ErikssonSpectator
@aerikssonLocale: Austin, TX
Good to see a solution chosen and now being implemented. While yes, there were dozens of different suggestions presented by dozens of different cooks in the kitchen, ultimately it's the BPL staff's decision and more importantly their name(s) on the line. One thing that I find comedic about the persistent haranguing and insistence that the community be allowed to help is that at the end of the day, if those same community people who opt themselves in decide "eh, f*ck this I don't want to continue for ______ reason" and leave, they've got zero to lose. Not reputation, not money, and only time that can't be that valuable because it cost absolutely nothing to anyone. And that's not even speaking to the quality of the suggestions, which in calling them all "quality" is a stretch. Of those people how many even have experience running a major forum much less a pay-for business?
Community efforts are fool's gold, and while appeasing to the mob mentality initially, in and of themselves it takes effort to organize the community which, in this case would certainly be more effort than simply using the resources at hand to come up with the best spit-balled solution. Let's "what if" though….
What if Ryan Jordan decides "yeah okay it takes a village." Then what? He has to get the word out, he has to organize and bring order to however many people wanting to do however many things, and then see it through. He has to decide which suggestions to follow, which to cull. Now you have people who are pleased and working, and a group of people who most definitely feel shot-down. It's a no-win situation. And again, if volunteers with no stake in the outcome other than not-being-butthurt decide to split, BPL is back to square one. Alternatively if someone in BPL follows one of those crap ideas through and it doesn't pan out, it's still BPL's fault in the end in the eyes of everyone.
Lastly, what's so wrong with the BPL forum software? You can post can't you? Hell you can even inline post images using plain old HTML, links too. The PM system is clunky but then again I only have to check my email to see who PMed me and it took me precisely 3 minutes to get accustomed. I've run several PHPBB boards (with your tax dollars paying me, US citizens) and I can tell you it's utter sh*t (too many poorly implemented features, not secure as you would like to dream, is difficult to modify lest you essentially rewrite entire portions of its business logic, and hard to administer, to name a few). Plus it's ugly.
My advice? F*ck it, keep on trucking BPL! Satisfy the majority (or even super-majority) of forum users as you're doing and go back to content creation because it's where the money is made and it's what keeps the lights on. Nowhere can you advertise "free forums now 100% Ken Thompson Satisfying and now extra-free!" and make MORE money. Or any money for that matter.Nov 10, 2012 at 6:41 am #1927471
RJ has had legitimate offers from professional programmers that he does not have the courtesy to even reply. But hey, your the expert here now aren't you Alex? You've seen it all from day one. Thanks for singling me out.
'Satisfy the majority (or even super-majority) of forum users as you're doing and go back to content creation because it's where the money is made and it's what keeps the lights on."
Because the reader generated material on the forums makes no money. OOOPS! it does now.
I realize that no one solution will please everyone. But there has to a better one than this.
Continued remarks about BPL staff kills me. There is Ryan on payroll with sometimes help from the web intern. That's it. Roger C. does it free. Everyone else has jumped ship and don't even post here anymore
Carol, Jay, Don, Will and Janet, Chris, plus more have come and eventually leave for good.
Edit: One more thing. As BPLs favorite critic, Ryan expects this type of post from me.Nov 10, 2012 at 7:14 am #1927474a bMember
Going to go figure out what has happened to the engine management computer on my Dad's 2004 truck today.
Alex, you can help diagnose it.
Ken, you get to haggle with the parts house for the best price.
You both are quite remarkable people.
Keep it real fellas.
CheersNov 10, 2012 at 7:31 am #1927480
Too funny a b. I was a Mercedes parts specialist for 12 years. The markup is insane.Nov 10, 2012 at 8:29 am #1927489Ken HelwigBPL Member
@kennyhel77Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Round and round and round and round and round and round we go.Nov 10, 2012 at 12:30 pm #1927519Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
> There is Ryan on payroll
Ryan has not been on the payroll for some time now. He has a full-time outside job in order to support his family. GFC…
CheersNov 10, 2012 at 1:06 pm #1927527Dale WambaughBPL Member
@dwambaughLocale: Pacific Northwest
Ken wrote: "Too funny a b. I was a Mercedes parts specialist for 12 years. The markup is insane."
That markup is compensation for putting up with the owners!
I sold auto parts for 25 years, but haven't leaned on a counter since 1995. I'd rather get a root canal without anesthesia ;)
You should try Peugeot for an interesting owner demographic.Nov 10, 2012 at 1:42 pm #1927528Adrian BBPL Member
@adrianbLocale: Auckland, New Zealand
>You should try Peugeot for an interesting owner demographic.
Hey now, what are you saying…Nov 10, 2012 at 4:00 pm #1927546AnonymousInactive
"And, please no need to yell spam, I'm tired too."
Then get some sleep and come back when you can answer my question: What does your rambling rehash of prevous whining about everything wrong with BPL have to do with the problem at hand?Nov 10, 2012 at 4:48 pm #1927554
Semantics Roger. He who pays the bills and has access to the bank account is on payroll. Many these days work two or more jobs to make ends meet, I do.
Edit: @ Tom. Later perhaps. Just got done with work and need to head off to the store. But really, you can't see how this all fits together after all the years you have spent here? Look at the forum admin. and support index and read some from way, way back and see what's changed.
@ Helwig, Some day in the mountains this will be so laughable.Nov 10, 2012 at 5:50 pm #1927566AnonymousInactive
"But really, you can't see how this all fits together after all the years you have spent here? Look at the forum admin. and support index and read some from way, way back and see what's changed."
Slow child that I am, Ken, I can sort of see, dimly, what has changed, without even cheating by referring to the FA&S Index. What I can't see is how it relates to dealing with….SPAM.Nov 10, 2012 at 7:38 pm #1927577JohnBPL Member
@johnnyh88Locale: The SouthWest
Will this new user type "Forum Member" be able to create threads in Gear Swap? Could be an interesting incentive for newcomers to pay the $5…Nov 10, 2012 at 7:50 pm #1927579
"Will this new user type "Forum Member" be able to create threads in Gear Swap? Could be an interesting incentive for newcomers to pay the $5…"
Looks that way. Check the subscription page.Nov 13, 2012 at 4:29 pm #1928111Ken HelwigBPL Member
@kennyhel77Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
"@ Helwig, Some day in the mountains this will be so laughable."
Huh? I am usually huffing and puffing at altitude….rarely laugh…Nov 14, 2012 at 8:28 am #1928278Steve GMember
If a pre-lockdown annual member lets their membership lapse is the logic there to downgrade them to a grandfathered forum member or are they spit out into the $5 a year group?
Would be interesting to compare new signups (and perhaps post count) ongoing to historical data to ensure the new policies are not shrinking the community.
If the goal was to stop spam why not a $5 one time forum registration fee? It seems punitive to the users to have a yearly fee when the intent was to stop spammers from registering.
Its unfortunate that non-monetary solutions were not used to resolve the issue. They are quite simple and effective.Nov 14, 2012 at 4:16 pm #1928381JD SchaeferBPL Member
@jdrowerLocale: North Carolina
I have no problem with the minor changes. This is the premier forum on backpacking, light or otherwise. The changes aren't onerous. But I'm sure for those that can't live with it, they'll be glad to start their own forum.
Safe and joyous hiking
JDNov 19, 2012 at 1:06 pm #1929672Peter SBPL Member
"If the goal was to stop spam why not a $5 one time forum registration fee? It seems punitive to the users to have a yearly fee when the intent was to stop spammers from registering."
What's the reason for a yearly fee instead of a one-time fee?
BTW i really hope the best for the future of BPL + forum! – one of the best places in cyberspace!
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