Klymit Ulaar being launched on Kicksarter.com

[Gabriel Rhoads]

Hey BPL World,

I just wanted to let everyone know that Klymit is launching the Ulaar Jacket on kickstarter.com. Check it out!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2075028552/ulaar-jacket

Basically this is a 4 way stretch jacket that you can vary from a clo of 1.5 to 4.5, and has a low friction poly face and bamboo carbon liner. It gives both men and women a custom fit and can take you down to incredibly low temperatures with argon gas. The weight comes in around 650 grams, so about the same as your average medium weight soft shell.

We invite you to support a young and core brand and get this dynamic jacket to market!

Thank you, and happy trails,

Bodhi

[Tom Lyons]

I'm a Klymit fan, but I admit that I'm a bit surprised that they need Kickstarter funding to sew a pair of sleeves and a hood on to their existing vest line!

I have several Klymit products, and I like them, and I even wanted to buy one of these Ulaar jackets.

Here's the hints.
Dump the "bamboo carbon liner".
Use something light, like DWR Pertex, for the sleeves and hood.
Lose at least a quarter-pound of lard off this jacket.
Drop the price to under $200.

I use the Klymit vest, and I put a 2.5 ounce Stoic Wraith over it for a shell, and it weighs less than a pound, all up. And that is including a "double-up" of material over the entire torso section, which wouldn't be needed with this Ulaar.

There are entire sleeping bags or tents that weigh less than this jacket.

[Ken Thompson]

Man that is one UGLY jacket.

Still holding on to the Argon gas gimmick too. Not practical.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

How much does the Ulaar weigh? I haven't been able to find the spec.

Klymit could make a killer packrafting PFD. That's what I'd like to see.

[Tom Lyons]

The OP says 650 grams.
That's somewhere around a pound and a quarter.
I find that needlessly heavy, for no apparent reason.

[Steve K]

Here's my question: What's the insulation like with dry air? (compared with argon) Seeing as argon gas is pretty expensive to be using regularly, I'd mostly be interested in using it with dry air, with a spare argon canister or two tucked away in case it gets miserable cold and I need an insulation boost.

Besides that, I am intrigued.

[James holden]

i assume that the vest part holding the argon is not air permeable … which would mean that its basically a softshell with a VBL torso portion?

hmmmmm

[Tom Lyons]

I use the Klymit vest with the dry air pump.
It works very well with air. The argon is mostly for cold temps that are below 20*F. If you are active, like hiking or skiing, it might be good down to 0*F before you need the argon.

The vest breathes, but not really well. Happily, since it's a vest, there are plenty of open areas for venting, and it doesn't really cause problems.
The main advantage is that you can adjust the insulation layer on the move, and it doesn't require carrying more than one layer, because you can adjust it. It can save you carrying a heavy insulation layer and a light insulation layer, because it does both. So, in this way, it can be considered as a lighter overall option than it appears to be. It can take to place of 2 or more garments.

Regarding the Ulaar, I like the concept, and I'm sold on the technology, but I don't agree with the unnecessary added weight that serves no beneficial purpose. This jacket could be under a pound, easy.

[Daryl and Daryl]

Except for the argon isn't this about the same as wearing a bubble wrap garment?

[Ken Thompson]

How much does the inflator cost and weigh with an argon canister? You would need to pack them on a multiday trip. What about repairs? One tiny hole and the whole jacket deflates. Then what?

Gimmick. Stick to pads.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Might be good for mountain biking— like wearing your air bag.

I had an EMS Airvantage inflatable jacket. Interesting but not very practical.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/62101/index.html?skip_to_post=530790#530790

[Tom Lyons]

Yep.
Just like all those other bubble wrap garments that you can inflate and deflate with infinite adjustability on the move.

And the argon isn't necessary. The dry air pump works just fine in temps down to ~20*F or even lower.

You don't have to carry any argon canisters, so in real terms, they don't weigh anything, unless you decide you want to carry them for very low temps.
And in comparison, ANY coat you'd bring to cope with those temps will weigh FAR more than the few argon capsules and nozzle.

[Tom Lyons]

The simple answer is that you don't need to bring ANY argon, so it doesn't weigh anything.
Zero.

One tiny hole, and you use the patch kit, just like you patch the one tiny hole in your inflatable sleeping pad. That's IF it ever happens. You're not laying on it, with it on the ground, where sticks might poke it, etc. It comes with a patch kit.
It doesn't come with argon, because you don't need it, unless you are going out in really cold temps, in which case you can decide to bring it if you want to.

The only gripe I have with it is that I think they made the sleeves and hood way too heavy. They need to lighten those up.

[Ken Thompson]

Want to comment on holes then? And say I am in veery cooold conditions and want to take the argon. How much does it weigh and cost? Edit: 3 canisters for $20

I have to admit I have not looked at any specs or info on these Klymit products other than the pads.

Don't see the need.

But I do have to wonder why the Kickstarter route to add sleeves onto a vest as well. Guess those sleeping bags aren't selling well.

[Tom Lyons]

I can't comment on holes, since mine never leaks or has ever gotten any holes in it. I can't really say what it's like to get a hole in it.
But, mine came with the patch kit, so I'm ready if it ever happens.

I also have the Klymit pad, and I'm one of the people that's the size it fits, and I think it rocks! I understand it doesn't fit everybody, and that it's not designed for quilts. But for me, it's awesome. I fit it, and I use sleeping bags, not quilts.

[Gary Dunckel]

@ Ken: The Klymitizer + one argon cartridge weigh 4.2 oz. The manual air pump bulb weighs 1.3 oz. You'll have to look up the cost–I received mine free for doing a beta/promo thing.

One comment about the breathability–minimal, in my opinion, if at all. I get pretty hot and sticky in my Double Diamond vest if I exert much at all. I really don't see how it can be breathable and still retain the insulative gas (air or argon).

I feel the best use for these products is to gain efficient (and variable) warmth while being inactive–such as sitting in a duck blind, or being at a football game in November.

I'm glad that they provide a double zipper on the coat. Without one, my vest bunches up uncomfortably at the bottom while I'm sitting. I suggested this to them when I submitted my review last fall, so maybe they listened.

As for the heavier fabric, just know that it's fairly bomb-proof and likely quite durable. I don't worry about snagging it on brush, like I do with lightweight shell fabrics.

[Anthony Miller]

Tom or Gary,

Since you guys each own one of the vest models can you comment on body length or post the length in inches for yours along with the size you have?

In the photos and videos I have seen they seem a bit short, barely hip length at best. The length info is not on the Klymit sizing chart on their website and I did not have much luck with their customer service.

I asked a detailed quastion about length, explaining it was not on the chart and 10 days later finally got a reply that for sizing info just use the online size chart.

Retail looks a bit high but Amazon prices are considerably better.

Tony

[Gary Dunckel]

Tony, my size large Double Diamond vest measures 24" from top of the arm hole to the bottom. It comes down 4" below my iliac crest, which is about like my other vests.

The only issues I have with my DD vest are (1) the lack of a double zipper, as I mentioned, and (2) the shoulders don't quite cover my whole shoulder, but rather stops about 2" short. So the tips of my shoulders get a bit cold, as compared with other vests. Neither of these are deal breakers for me.

[Tom Lyons]

Mine's a size XL, and it's 30" from the top of the collar, to the bottom of the vest.
I have a fairly long torso, and it fits me fine.
I'm about 5'11 and 220 pounds, and the XL fits me well. I have an ex-weightlifter build with some extra belly now.

Pick the size that's a little on the large side for you, because the vest needs to have some room to pump up. If you get your normal chest size, it will be too tight when you pump it up. Also, don't pump it up like a life vest. Just enough to give it the "loft thickness" that you want is all that's necessary. If you pump it up hard, it gets too stiff, and is uncomfortable.

The key to sitting down comfort is not having it blown up like an inflatable body splint. This is easily avoided when using the air inflation instead of the argon, because I'm not trying to "conserve the argon" by using the same level of inflation for everything. With the air inflation, you actually start using the adjustability of inflation, and it all comes together. When trying to conserve the argon, it impedes the versatility because you don't want to let any costly argon out if you don't absolutely have to.
The air is much more versatile because it doesn't have this limitation of trying to not let out any gas.

The other thing is that when it's deflated, it hangs away from your body, because you have that extra size room in there to allow for inflation. So, it allows air movement to get under it, and doesn't act like a rain suit. Again, I think the key is to not get too small of a size. Having it hang looser on you when deflated helps air to circulate under it.

I got mine for $83.45 on line. I had to take the amphibian model to get that price, but I found out that it was not actually that chartreuse green that it appears to be, and it is actually a fairly nice earth tone olive drab color. I am pleased with the vest, especially at that price.

I am also pleased with my Klymit X-Lite inflatable sleeping pad.
I think these guys have some good products, and the technology works. Sometimes it seems like they understand the need for low weight with the sleeping pads. But then they don't grasp the low weight issue very well with things like this Ulaar, and think that things like "bamboo carbon liners" are somehow going to seem relevant to the consumer. I can't figure out which consumers those might be.

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