light hooded mid-layer + light down vest > than a light hooded down jacket?

> wearing cap 4 in the rain under a rain jacket

yeah, that would most likely happen to me. there are folks who run colder than me (and you) who would likely be fine. These people know who they are, they are always cold :)

–mark

for shoulder season weather (or any other weather for that matter) I wasn't discussing ditching a thin base layer for a cap 4, instead I'm discussing ditching an insulated jacket (~ 8-12+ oz) for a cap 4 hoody (or the like) and a vest for close to the same weight ~ 12 oz- I think you end up w/ very close to the same clo, but gives you a few more options ie just throwing on the cap 4 over your base, just throwing on your vest over your base, throwing both over your base; if conditions turned cold (or cold/wet) you could potentially hike w/ the just the cap 4 (can't do that w/ a down jacket) in lieu of the base layer

I'm including a windshirt and rain gear if appropriate as part of the package

it puts a few more arrows in your quiver for roughly the same weight; the down side as I see it is it's more volume (could be a problem w/ a very low volume pack), potentially a little more weight if you have an uber lwt down jacket and slightly less clo standing/sitting around camp

I personally think its chasing a few oz for very little return … How much to the sleeves and hood weight on a light down jacket over a vest …. 5 oz?

Basically yr ditching the extra warm it provides to save a tiny bit of weight … Remenber that ull use the down in static situations … A bit more insulation in those cases aint a bad thing ….

Just carry a cap 4 and a light down jacket IMO …. Youll be able to use it when the tempa dip as well

ahhh- but we're always chasing ounces here :)