Sep 27, 2012 at 5:13 pm #1294511
I came to a bit of an epiphany today. I've been enamored with the MLD cuben supermid for several months, but never put together all the required pieces together in my head to make a package satisfying for my lightweight desires and my wife's displeasure in bugs and wet ground, and our limited funds. We also demand to be able to sit upright in the tent, and have robust weather protection.
The table below contains most reasonable permutations of supermid material, netting solution, and bathtub solution.
BP netting = perimeter netting and netting door installed on a supermid via BearPaw
BP bathtub = a standalone bathtub fit to the supermid via BearPaw
BP pyranet3 = BearPaw's pyranet, an all in one solution
ZP bathtub = ZPacks bathtub (8ft x 8ft)
After seeing the initial results, I then put on the other tents I've found that satisfy all of the same requirements…
Downsizing from a 91 oz tent, the last column in the table represents the percentage difference in weight (easier to help me understand the perceived weight changes)
Conclusion: I am still enamored with a full supermid setup, with BP netting and ZPacks bathtub. However, the total cost for that setup is more than three times as expensive as SMD cuben Haven, which ends up about the same weight. The Nemo Meta 2P is in the same ballpark, but I like the Haven design better. The ZPacks hexamid is easily the lightest out of the whole bunch, with the cuben Haven not far behind.
Are there any other tents I should add to these calculations? (UL, sit-uppable, bug protection, bathtub, trekking pole framed)
EDIT Just added the ZPacks hexamid twin with bathtubSep 27, 2012 at 5:37 pm #1916261
Dan DurstonBPL Member
TarpTent SS2? $325, 40oz. Quite spacious.
Jeff NBPL Member
@newtroutLocale: Pacific NW
The Rainshadow is palatial with great headroom. 42 oz and $279Sep 27, 2012 at 5:59 pm #1916267
I'll add that one tomorrow. Are there any other tents that can break that 40oz barrier? Neither of those options are to me as convincing as seeing the sub 2-lb realm of the Haven, Meta, and Hexamid…Sep 27, 2012 at 6:27 pm #1916273
Manfred KopischBPL Member
I'm not so sure the price per oz as shown in the table is meaningful for what you are trying to achieve. Let's assume two tents cost the same, but one weighs less. In your table the lighter tent that costs the same will look more expenseive per oz because it weighs less.
I think what you are really looking for is the $ amount you have to spend for every oz you save over your old tent. In that case the lighter tent would save you more oz for the same price and thus would be the better choice.
I extended your table with this information.
ManfredSep 27, 2012 at 6:47 pm #1916276
Jason GBPL Member
@jasongLocale: iceberg lake
you should note that the SMD set up is actually 26oz. the net tents are listed 14 but actually 16..Sep 27, 2012 at 7:32 pm #1916286
Colton AkersBPL Member
What about the lightheart gear tents?Sep 27, 2012 at 7:35 pm #1916287
Manfred is right. As far as the money goes $/oz is useless, you don't want more weight! It's not cheese!
Two money factors matter: Total dollar (can you afford this) and price/weight savings(is this a good place to spend money to save weight).
Also you listed the Supermid, which is more of a 3 person tent and then some 2p tents. Naturally the smaller ones will be lighter. If you are looking at mids from MLD why not a Speedmid or Duomid?
Are you considering any winter trips? If so, consider snowshedding of the outer and a completely separate inner, so you can leave it behind in winter to save some weight. The netting lfoor of the Zpacks doesn't seem like a great option to select for winter use.Sep 27, 2012 at 7:39 pm #1916288
You need to narrow down what you WANT. Price will not determine this for you, the tents you list are very varied in features, size, and weight.Sep 27, 2012 at 7:41 pm #1916289
The Bearpaw bathtub you list, is that cuben?
The Bearpaw tent you list with the Silnylon floor, whcih weight? What about the Cuben floor?
I assume the Zpacks bathtub is cuben?Sep 27, 2012 at 7:42 pm #1916290
By weight or $/oz saved, or something else, but sort it.Sep 27, 2012 at 7:47 pm #1916292
Herbert SitzBPL Member
@hesLocale: Pacific NW
" Are there any other tents that can break that 40oz barrier? Neither of those options are to me as convincing as seeing the sub 2-lb realm of the Haven, Meta, and Hexamid…"
As long as your gram-counting you should note that the listed weights for all Tarptents include stuff sacks and stakes. I'm pretty sure the listed weights for SMD and MLD both exclude the stakes, which amounts to a couple of ounces that need to be added on if you haven't already accounted for it.
As far as bang for the buck I'd say the Tarptents are pretty "convincing", although the SMD entries look pretty good that way too.Sep 27, 2012 at 8:03 pm #1916295
So adjust for that.Sep 27, 2012 at 9:07 pm #1916304
Hell you can complicate it even more, you will probably want a couple ounces of elastic tensioners on silnylon tents to keep them taught, esp when wet. And dont forget a couple ounces for seam sealing as well.
2 big reasons for cuben regardless of price. No stretch/no sag, taped seams/no sealing.Sep 27, 2012 at 9:39 pm #1916307
Erik BasilBPL Member
Two of those tents cost more than one thousand dollars, each. Does a tent that light offset the weight of the ti Rolex?
A thousand dollars? A thousand dollars?Sep 27, 2012 at 9:50 pm #1916310
Herbert SitzBPL Member
@hesLocale: Pacific NW
The weight in your charts for Nemo Meta 2P is way off. The "packed weight" is 57 ounces and the "minimum weight" is 47 ounces:
Nemo Meta 2P
I suspect the packed weight is the one that's relevant for comparison here, which means it probably doesn't make sense to have the tent in this comparison.Sep 27, 2012 at 9:58 pm #1916311
Something I don't like (math), and something I don't have (money). I don't know about all this…
You should add a MYOG setup, cheapest way to go lighter :)Sep 27, 2012 at 10:01 pm #1916312
drowning in spamMember
What makes a tent luxurious? Of course the floor, netting and ability to sit up as you said. That doesn't cut it for me. I expect a tall ceiling and vertical walls. Some domes can provide that, so can tunnels.Sep 27, 2012 at 10:40 pm #1916316
Corbin McFarlaneBPL Member
Zpacks or SMD Haven (Non-Cuben) based strictly on your table without knowledge of each particular tent set-up. Per Manfred the SMD Haven is the most cost effective way to lose weight, while the Zpacks is the lightest overall by almost half a pound, and almost a full pound over the SMD Haven. The Zpacks is also still fairly cost effective, though not cheap. $200=$200.
I recently did a similar comparison and ended up with the Zpacks because it was comparatively less expensive than many while easily being lightest. I figured I already had a 5-pound tent I got for free, so I might as well just get the lightest tent if I was actually going to spend money, no need to compromise on an almost-as-expensive moderately light tent (or even worse, a tent made by myself that costs hundreds of dollars and has such shoddy workmanship that it would fall apart in one season). So far no regrets, though I won't claim it is best for your uses too.
I would not necessarily describe the Z-packs tent as luxurious, but it does everything I ask of it, like keep out water and bugs and allow room to sit up and even keep some gear inside. With a bathtub floor I can't see why it would be worse than the others in snow (haven't tried), though in my opinion mine is a little drafty, but that may be common for most of these.Sep 28, 2012 at 12:08 am #1916321
Jeffs ElevenBPL Member
I have a scarp 2 and I consider it luxurious. But it is on the heavier side.
Knowing what I know about Tarptent, but not having seen one, I would put money on the SS2 being a winner.
52" wide floor
big one now that I own the scarp- two main staking points. (east to do by yourself)
If I had a gripe about the Scarp it would be that it is weird to get started pitching it- you pretty much WILL be redoing a couple of stakes. of course I only have 5 nights in mine so I'll get better…
I almost got the solid inner but went with the mesh… I'm glad I did because with the Scarp shell 'zipped up' the is almost NO draft even with a ok breeze. We would hear the wind knock pine needles on the tent but not feel the wind. Anyway the SS2 the same specs to the ground and bathtub height so I bet its equally draft-less.
headroom for "luxury" – its the spaciousness that makes it feel luxurious when you're in it.Sep 28, 2012 at 4:52 am #1916336
Kevin BabioneBPL Member
Another option you have as you agonize over the choices would be to save some $$$ now (and carry a little more weight) and then revisit your options in a couple of years.
I have a Lunar Duo and love it. Buy one of the cheaper/heavier tents now, use it for a year or two, and then sell it. As more and more people offer a Cuben option the prices will probably drop. As long as you are willing to sell your beloved gear when it's time to upgrade (unfortunately I tend to be a "hoarder" and have kept everything I've ever purchased to use as a loaner) then you won't be out much.Sep 28, 2012 at 5:28 am #1916343
@towalyLocale: Smoky Mtns.
If I wanted a big luxurious roomy tent for two, I'd buy the 4-person Tarptent Hogback and split the weight up for carry. Thirty-two ounces for me carrying the outer, and thirty-two ounces for the wife carrying the inner.
It might not be light like the others, but it's got the room, and it can be split for carry weight.
And OOH! There is some big, bug-free, fully-floored, room in there!
7 feet square, and full 49"(4+ FEET!) sit-up room
If you want a palace, THAT's a palace. And it's 4-season capable.
You could play cards in there, and change your clothes easily, etc.
And it's still about 2 pounds lighter than what you had before.
Granted, it's not "ultralight" and it's overkill for 2 people trying to ultralight.
But it IS luxurious and roomy and nice quality, and still fairly light for a tent that roomy.
Okay, you can chop my head off now for not gram counting, and taking the "luxurious" desire to be important and still shave some significant weight off the previous tent.Sep 28, 2012 at 7:36 am #1916368
Richard LyonBPL Member
@richardglyonLocale: Bridger Mountains
The Hogback will work for two adults plus an eight-year old for sleeping, and it's a palace for two, and not much more than four pounds. If the budget allows at some point you might also consider a Warmlite 3R or Hilleberg Kaitum 2GT. This last one weighs in much heavier, but it's considerably more versatile and rock-solid in winter. I agree with Ted, don't count every ounce when you are talking about your shelter. Get what you want and can afford.
RichardSep 28, 2012 at 8:26 am #1916380
Thanks for all of your thoughts. This is extremely helpful (especially the saved $/oz idea)
This could be a lot easier:
First of all, it seems to me Backpackinglight could inject some major value into their paid membership by setting up a simple comparison website; keep an internal form of all tents interesting to the site, solicit prices, weights, volumes and features from the manufacturers (or community), and setup an interface for members to compare tents side-by-side, or search by features. This isn't anything Web 2.0… just basic check boxes and drop-down menus. That would have saved me hours of time combing websites. (This could be expanded to other products as well, one at a time)
The upkeep could be mitigated by allowing paid members to adjust values, wiki-style.
Yes, Zpacks is the cuben bathtub, for BearPaw tubs I only accounted for the silnylon versions primarily because I knew it was already looking expensive, and I didn't want to add more cuben to the price. I could go through and put those in, but that will just make it busier.
Bagged vs unbagged tents:
I wish manufacturers would make it clear which weight they're reporting.
Supermid interest over Duomid:
I read enough comments that the Duomid is slightly small for 2 people (especially once I put some sort of bathtub or inner), plus the $1100 cuben supermid would have given enough space for more people / dogs / kids as needed, and it's winter adaptable, for a still really low weight–very attractive. But that is a LOT of money that I don't have. Hence, agreement with the comments to buy what I can actually afford.
The Haven still looks pretty nice to me, but yes, the extra luxury described with the very affordable Rainshadow 2 is worth considering. Time to take it to the wife's aesthetics.
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