Looking to go lighter still

[Kenneth Jacobs]

Wondering if anyone can help me find more areas to save weight:

Here Is My Current Setup: 18.400lbs
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alo1h-n02vQMdG5acGVSSGRXdEhBOEJNY1UydVVfQ3c

Here Is What I'd Like To Get To/My Equipment Wants: 15.763lbs
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alo1h-n02vQMdDVySE5FMGNmdk9ZbWl4eGpqcVk2cHc

TIA!

KJ

[michael levi]

This should be interesting.

[Jake D]

i only looked at the 2nd list. but here are things to take off the top

you have 2 long sleeve shirts.. pick one.

Houdini and Zeus? pick one

get a trash compactor bag, ditch the pack cover

ditch the trowel.. you have tent stakes, sticks, and trekking poles

skip bandana, you have a hat.

skip all the extra fire stuff or at least pare it down. you don't need 3 fire sources.

skip the fire starter.. bic lighter and a pack of bar matches.

why isn't the belt in "worn" i doubt you'll carry it?

skip the 10L bucket, wash your clothes when you get home. same with the netting bag.

skip pack towel, use a 1'x1' of the shamwow

skip the umbrella? rain jacket and umbrella and pack cover? nope nope

[Ben C]

There are lighter options of most everything you list. And a large percentage of items can be left at home for many/most trips.
For example:Stoic Hadron much lighter than the Zeus and cheaper too. I never need gaiters. Five ounces seems like a lot for a "potty bag"; TP alone or nothing will work. 10.5 misc bag is way heavy. Six ounces for a shrink bag? Leave stuff at home and you wont need to shrink anything. Ever consider a tarp; it will be half the weight. You can go a lot lighter on the pack; my Zpack is 39 ounces lighter. Ditch the pack cover. Get one trash compactor bag and ditch all the other dry sacks. Ditch at least 2 of the biners. You can get a cheap knife at 1/3rd the weight. That's about 8 oz more of a FAK than I carry. Thats a lot more water carrying capacity than I need 90% of the time. Plenty more you can cut out, especially good weather trips.
You can come up with a good reason for carrying any of it, but if you want to go lighter, its cheap just to leave a lot at home.

[Kenneth Jacobs]

"you have 2 long sleeve shirts.. pick one."

Are you referring to my Phase SL (hot weather, wicking, sun protection) and my Nike Pro Combat (Super tight to the skin Thermal Layer)?

"Houdini and Zeus? pick one"

In what regard? One is a down insulation jacket the other is a thin wind/bug jacket.

"get a trash compactor bag, ditch the pack cover"

Been there, done that. Completely useless if you ask me. When it starts to rain , I don't want to have to tailor a plastic bag to fit my pack.

"ditch the trowel.. you have tent stakes, sticks, and trekking poles"

I've tried this many times (Out in the Rockies and in the Midwest) to no avail. I have barely ever been able to even dig a 6" hole with the saw edges trowel as is, due to massive amounts or roots. Do you have any other lightweight suggestions or tips on how to effectively dig cat holes?

"skip bandana, you have a hat."

I normally use the bandana as neck sun protection and to keep bugs off the back of my neck, but now that I have the Houdini…I guess it is kinda redundant.

"skip all the extra fire stuff or at least pare it down. you don't need 3 fire sources."

I am already considering getting rid of the Fire Starter Pellets. They're in there because my fire starting skills are pretty crappy. I've been practicing.

"skip the fire starter.. bic lighter and a pack of bar matches."

I have weatherproof matches, but I actually find more value in the Fire Steel.

"why isn't the belt in "worn" i doubt you'll carry it?"

I've carried it. I'm a skinny guy and with material stretch and a lot of hiking, I've found I do occasionally need the belt to keep the britches up.

"skip the 10L bucket, wash your clothes when you get home. same with the netting bag."

This is only for my JMT trip next year (21+ days, see "JMT Equipment:" table header)

'skip pack towel, use a 1'x1' of the shamwow"

Again, this is only for my JMT trip next year (21+ days)

"skip the umbrella? rain jacket and umbrella and pack cover? nope nope"

The umbrella is a luxury item for sure. I use it for rain AND sun. Only brought on long trips where I expect a LOT of rain or sun. If you are not an umbrella user, I understand how you might not see it's value. I'm almost one of those that will say, "You can pry it from my cold dead hands!" I can't even begin to explain how handy and multi-purpose they are.

[michael levi]

You are going to Need to get into a different mindset if you want to lose weight. No ifs ands or buts.

[Kenneth Jacobs]

Yeah, I haven't found much use for the gaiters yet. May be retiring those soon. The potty bag is a cheap nylon bag with a GSI trowel (in a baggie) with two travel size Charmin TPs.

The Misc Bag just got chopped down in terms of bottles sizes and such, still need to reweigh that now that I have Dr. Bronners and DEET in mini bottles and found a mini bottle of hand sanitizer. Also note that this bag contains all my bathroom stuff (BA Stuff – travel toothpaste, collapsible brush, mini floss, etc.).

I do have a smaller size secondary Evernew bottle, but the minor weight difference (actually heavier I believe) warrants still carrying the Platypus. I do agree with your comment on water needs. Maybe it's time to ditch the Platypus and use my backup Evernew bag with my filter as an extra water holder.

2 of the biners are for my hanging food bag, that I just realized is not on he sheet (OOPS!) The third hangs my whistle on my pack.

I will be switching to a Mora Classic 2/0 knife (per the second spreadsheet) when $$ permits. I believe it comes in at 1.8oz for a 3" fixed blade knife.

I'm not sure what FAK stands for. Care to share the acronym?

[Kenneth Jacobs]

New Changes

1.1oz – Ditch bandana (no longer needed with Houdini)
0.8oz – Loose fire starter pellets and get better making fire with knife and fire steel (lighter is backup)
0.8oz – Ditch Duct Tape Roll (Redundant with Gear Aid Tenacious Tape)?
1.3oz – Ditch Platypus Soft Bottle (Use Spare Filter Bag if Needed)
3.0oz – Leave Outdoor Research Ultra Trail Gaiters at home
========================================================================
7.0oz – Saved

[Kenneth Jacobs]

Any idea of the fill weight of the Stoic Hadron Down Anorak though? If it doesn't compare to the Zeus, doesn't make much sense to switch.

[Kenneth Jacobs]

Totally understood on the mindset thing. As I keep backpacking I keep simplifying. I do enjoy the simplicity, but I do also enjoy some conveniences. i.e. – cat hole trowel

[Charles P]

goes inside the backpack as a waterproof liner, not outside. load it up, tie it off and gear is safe, though a lid (if you have one) or anything tied outside is vulnerable.

[Kenneth Jacobs]

HA! I'm an idiot! My bad.

[Jake D]

Remember, you asked. Enjoy your 20lb baseweight.

I just did the Long Trail, slightly longer than JMT. my pack never went over 26lbs with food and 1L water.

on the trail i never washed my clothes ( socks twice but it was a waste of time), i used 1 canister of fuel, never started a fire, took a shower twice in town (everyone will smell you get used to it)

The trash compactor bag goes INSIDE, in that you put your sleeping bag and extra clothes, twist shut. I ran 2 miles in a complete downpour that turned the trail into a 5" deep river and nothing in my pack was wet, even the stuff out of the pack cover. remember your pack cover leaves a giant gaping hole unprotected.

zeus, down insulation good (i have one in my pack for this weekend). leave the Houdini home. you have 2 other long sleeve shirts and a rain jacket. you will not hike in a jacket…

on the E coast umbrellas are useless due to the terrain. also you are carrying trekking poles.. how are you going to carry an umbrella too?

you didn't say what trip you were doing so don't blame me for not knowing what the hell your plans were.

[David Thomas]

>>"why isn't the belt in "worn" i doubt you'll carry it?"

>I've carried it. I'm a skinny guy and with material stretch and a lot of hiking, I've found I do occasionally need the belt to keep the britches up.

I've got a friend here in Alaska who does the Iditarod occasionally. He can lose 3 belt notches in 2 weeks of being up and moving for 20 hours a day, every day.

One or two tabs of material with velcro could eliminate the need for a belt.

Or two small tabs with two shoelace grommets in each would let you snug up your pants an inch or two on each side. My wife has a factory-made pair of pants that fasten like that and it allows them to be essentially resized simply by retying the knot.

[Kenneth Jacobs]

Hmm…Never thought about simply modifying my pants. I like this idea. Are you talking about a simple velcro fold over to take up slack?

[Ben C]

Experience is a good teacher. Some people's style of backpacking (small walks with long camp times) may lead them to carry that much weight. You may decide to keep some of the stuff with experience but probably not all of it.

Most people doing much mileage will soon pare down the weight with experience. I spent several days hiking the northern section of the AT in Maine last month. I passed a lot of hikers near the end of the trip. At that time and place, these were mostly hikers who had made good time. It looked like most of them were in the 8-15 pound range. Most were not carrying things like potty trowels and lots of redundant gear.

As for me, at the end of a long hiking day, I want a shelter, a meal, and then a sleeping bag/pad. And not much else to fool with.

FAK = First Aid Kit

I'm not sure you understand the use of the compactor bag. Its pretty foolproof. Put it in the bottom of your pack with everything you want to keep dry inside it. Twist the top and tuck it down. No "tailoring" or doing anything when it starts raining.

I don't know the fill of the Hadron. I think it is plenty for most people 3 season. I probably would switch it out for a really cold winter trip.

Think about whether your trip would still be fine if you didn't have a particular piece of gear rather than the reason you need it.

[Kenneth Jacobs]

Thank you for your polite response. I'm not trying to justify anything with my responses to people here, only let them know what my uses for particular items are so they can see things on my level and possibly point out redundancies.

I'm sure I can cut some more weight out of my First Aid Kit. I think growing up with an RN mom has planted "BE PREPARED!!" in my mind regarding my FAK. It's probably overkill. Must eliminate the medic tenancy in me and cut it's weight down. I think I'm also far to used to having a bulked up FAK like I used to carry all the time when downhill mtn. biking. I can't tell you haw many people I've patched up that absolutely mutilated themselves.

I hope this conversation will continue to be at least 50/50 on items AND perspective. I agree with all that are saying it's not just about the item, but also about mindset. I'm looking for experience viewpoint shifts you've experienced along with equipment suggestions/rejections. …or even great inventive ideas like Mr. Thomas has suggested.

TIA!

[Jake D]

my first aid kit (minus the tri-bandage but i have a non stick gauze pad that didnt make it in the pic. blue/white bottle has advil)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/Hiking/0622021751.jpg

you're not taking care of anyone else, you're taking care of yourself. There is also so much you can do without needing help anyway

i think it is funny you liked David's velcro idea to save 1oz but reject large weight savings.

[Kenneth Jacobs]

Jake

Thank you for the shot of the FAK. Helps to see what others carry with them. Wasn't saying that I planned on taking care of others, just was sharing my tenancy to be over prepared for medical situations.

I actually haven't rejected anything other than a want to tolerate the unnecessary attitude you seem to be projecting in my general direction. I'm not rejecting your suggestions. As I have already stated I'm merely sharing my uses for items so that others can see my perspective on my equipment and perhaps point out redundancies and or mental shifts that may need to occur. Please take note that I have actually taken two of your suggestion (ditch the bandana and ditch the fire starter pellets). It's about HingYOH…not about accepting or rejecting everything everyone says. I'm looking for suggestions, experiences, insights, innovations, tips, alternatives…not being reprimanded. I appreciate your help!

Smile, I'm here to make friends…not enemies.

Kind Regards
KJ

[Jake D]

gotcha, i read it like you didn't seem like you were wanting to budge.

there is my Long Trail pack for perspective. i'm definitely not UL by the standards here but I used every item on my list except my nylon mittens and didn't find myself wanting more
http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=9466

[Jason Darby]

According to another post here on BPL, the fill weights for the Hadron are as follows:

• Hadron Down Anorak – Men’s – 2.3oz
• Hadron Down Anorak – Women’s – 2.1oz

I'm not sure if that's for a medium or large though.

For what it's worth, I used a Hadron Anorak (size L, 7.6 oz on my scale) this past week in the Maroon Bells to keep my head warm while sleeping in my quilt. I was plenty warm with it.

Just for some context, I was using a 30* quilt under an MLD Trailstar. I had a long sleeve lightweight baselayer and a beanie on in addition to the Hadron. Temps were in the mid 30s, and I actually slept with my arms and shoulders (and head) outside of the quilt and the hadron kept me plenty warm.

[Kenneth Jacobs]

Nice! I like this site!

When you say "Long Trail" pack, you mean what you pack for long trips? If you're not UL, then that makes me a tank. I don't think 12lbs is anything to shake a stick at. I'm just hoping to get to 15lbs any time soon.

I will do some thinking comparing you list to mine and ponder how I'd feel without certain things.

[Jake D]

Long Trail as in THE Long Trail :)
http://www.greenmountainclub.org/page.php?id=2

MA border to Canadian border through vermont 272mi

12 is a bit lighter than I was for that actually. i had a heavier tent and slightly heavier sleeping pad. plus phone and camera chargers i dont normally bring.

i'll be hiking this weekend with a guy on here with 8lb base so mine will look big. I am pretty happy with where I am right now since <20lb i don't really notice in my pack

[michael levi]

Your UL2 should not be that heavy. If you only brought the minimum stakes (6) and ditched the ground sheet you should be able to hit the 2lb 4oz mark.

[Kenneth Jacobs]

"• Hadron Down Anorak – Men’s – 2.3oz
• Hadron Down Anorak – Women’s – 2.1oz"

Hmmm…so it's a bit lighter of a fill weight than the Zeus (3.5oz). How does the fir run? Does it also come without a hood? My plan down the line is to have a quilt with separate hood (to use with quilt or jacket).

[Author]

Posts