Do you carry redundant backups of critical gear?

[Slo Hiker]

Navy SEALS have a mantra that states: "One is none – two is one", implying that critical functions that are gear dependent require contingency layers.

It certainly isn’t practical to carry back-ups to everything, but things like the ability to make fire can make or break a trip.

When necessary, I extend the rule to “Three is two; two is one; one is none.” i.e. matches, butane lighter & FireSteel.

[Eugene Smith]

Spare jet pack, grappling hooks, wing suit, lasers, mezcal, just the usual items.

I believe the only "Plan B" type item packed is an alternate fire source. I'll usually throw in a small box of cigar matches to go with my mini Bic.

[Ozzy McKinney]

You desert guys and your fairweather minimalism. Just kidding.

I live in the old PNWet, and I always carry a ziplock with an extra minibic and a weber fire cube. I know, not as flashy as a fire steel. Try to start a fire with a firesteel after 3 weeks of rain, or carry an extra oz?

[Eugene Smith]

"You desert guys and your fairweather minimalism."

You nailed it! :-)

[John Donewar]

Thank you James for reminding me about my socks.

I keep one pair of Wigwam wool sleeping socks stuffed down inside of my top quilt.

I also wear / carry 3 pair of shorty thin synthetic socks that I rotate. Wear one, carry two, dry one, wear one, carry one etc. I could probably reduce down to 2 pair and wear one, carry one, dry one, wear one and so forth.

But is the new 2 actually 3? I'm so confused! ;-)

Party on,

Newton

[Ben H.]

C. Wisner mentioned that he could easily go without fire-starters or knives and considers sleeping bags/tents as critical gear.

I agree, I never use fire-starters during my trip but I take extras along because they are the back-up to my sleeping bag. I consider a wet sleeping one of the most serious threats to my safety while in the high country. I don't take an extra one, but I do take fire starting equipment. If I can make a fire I will be able to stay warm.

I carry a rain poncho (instead of a rain suit) to act as backup to my shelter. Where I hike, I don't consider water treatment as critical gear. The chance of getting sick is pretty low. I treat water to make sure I don't get sick, but if it failed I would just drink untreated water.

I don't consider a light as critical gear. The earth provides a good one every day. If my light fails I will just wait until morning.

And, even though it goes against everything my father taught me, I don't consider a knife critical gear. If I was going to spend a loooong time stranded in the wilderness, a knife would be a pretty important bushcrafting tool. In an emergency situation, I think I would be better off spending my time getting back to civilization than creating a Gilligan's Island ™ radio/television.

[Dena Kelley]

I thought of one other thing I'm redundant about- waterproofing my clothes and sleeping bag. The clothes are in a dry bag, sealed. The sleeping bag is in it's compression sack, surrounded by a garbage bag, doubled, and sealed. These are both inside a waterproof pack liner. And my pack is water resistant.

I have a thing about keeping my critical items dry.

[Stephan Doyle]

I rarely carry a knife or any sort of firestarter.

My "backup" (and oftentimes primary) water filtration is drinking straight from the source.

[Art …]

there seems to be a lot of obsession with fire starting and knives on this thread.
are we talking "Lord of the Flies" or Winter Survival ?

I don't consider starting a fire critical unless I'm in a cold weather survival situation. I generally only carry a dozen waterproof matches if I'm bringing a stove, and half the time I don't bring the stove.

As far as knives, my standard UL knife weighs 18g with a 1.5 inch blade. I consider it more a part of my first aid kit.

I consider a map critical gear for places I've never been before (but I don't carry a duplicate, I just don't lose the one I've got).
As for a compass, haven't carried one since 1996 and managed to get back home every time (but there are a few places I might want one).

[Dale Wambaugh]

Tad wrote, "In the Cascades, east of Seattle if you get lost or run out of something, all you have to do is walk south and within 30 miles you will cross a major highway (north and south of that its 50 miles). So you are within at most a 2 day hike from a major food/supply source. Redundancy can really be cut in this area. Just keep walking south and drink some water- you'll be just fine."

IF you can walk and figure out which direction you are going. I wouldn't leave that kind of trek to any but the most experienced. In the mean time, everyone is out looking where you aren't.

My major solo survival scenarios are based on falling while crossing a stream and losing my pack, losing my gear due to theft or animal damage, or an injury that will stop me from walking. I want just enough stuff in my pockets to signal, make fire, navigate, and a basic light source.

Having some redundancy doesn't mean you can't seek good light alternatives. Think of it as the "Hiking Love Story" theme :)

[Dena Kelley]

"there seems to be a lot of obsession with fire starting and knives on this thread.
are we talking "Lord of the Flies" or Winter Survival ?"

Why judge? Differences in location, weather, etc. dictate different needs. If nothing else, I want a hot meal at night and want to be able to light my stove. But I live in Alaska. In my area, the summers are often wet and cool (dropping into the high 40's/low 50's at night) which is prime hypothermia weather, and I can be days away from the nearest road and completely out of contact (cell phones don't work in most of Alaska). I want the option of having a fire if I need it. It's actually easier to stay warm and dry in winter than in summer up here. And I can't think of a single outing I've ever been on where my knife hasn't come out at least once. Knives are indispensable to me. Your experience may be different, and that's fine. Everyone should pack based on their own needs and not someone else's.

[Art …]

Dena – I'll give you both items for being in Alaska.
when I lived there, long ago, roaring fires and big knives were great.
but for most of us down in the lower 48, not so much.

p.s.
the HYOH phrase is quickest way to shut down "real" discussion.
disagreement sparks discussion wish sparks ideas.
HYOH just brings in a lot of yes men.

[Dena Kelley]

"p.s.
the HYOH phrase is quickest way to shut down "real" discussion.
disagreement sparks discussion wish sparks ideas.
HYOH just brings in a lot of yes men."

I'm not sure who that was directed at, because I didn't use "HYOH" in my response although I suppose the tone is similar. I find it interesting that you see it as a way of shutting down discussion, because I see it just the opposite- I see HYOH and the philosophy behind the phrase as a way of saying that you respect that another person may have different needs, motives, environment, weather, higher or lower tolerance to risk etc. and also that your way isn't the only way of doing things. I don't think it discourages discussion, I think it encourages it, but encourages it in a respectful manner by keeping people open minded and not prone to judgment or snarky remarks. I find these discussions fascinating, personally, and it gives me a lot of insight into how different hiking can be across the US. A place like the AT, for example, where re-supply points are common but you can hike thousands of miles non-stop…that's amazing to me. I think this thread itself is fascinating because you can see a broad spectrum of risk tolerance and even priorities in this thread. It's great learning material.

[Tad Englund]

Dena, this statement intrigue's me >And I can't think of a single outing I've ever been on where my knife hasn't come out at least once.<

For myself, I can't think of a time when my knife does come out (I do use the scissors often, but never the blade).

I do fish in remote Alaska every year and use a knife for the fishing tasks but for everything else its back to the scissors.

What do you do different than me? Of course you don't know my hiking situation but you can help me understand the value of a knife.

[Dena Kelley]

Tad-

I would have to say part of it is that I don't go to the lengths to cut weight that many people do, so I don't have my moleskin pre-cut, or my cordage pre-cut, or my duct tape pre-cut. I know that some people pre-cut everything at home so they won't need a knife in the field, and I think it's a cool idea but not one I'm ready to embrace for now. I also leave my dried foods in their original packaging as I find I like the stiffer side walls of the freeze dried packaging over using a zip loc, stuff like that, so I use my knife to cut down the packaging as I eat so that I keep my hand clean. Stuff like that. I also use my knife to light fires as most of my knives have firesteels and I use the back of the blade to strike the steel for my fire or to light my stove. I also like knowing I can improvise a tent stake, a spoon (or chopsticks, haha) out of wood if needed if I were to break or lose an item I needed.

I appreciate the question and would love to ask you in return what you do that makes it that you don't require a knife? For example, how do you prep your items so that you know you have things right and won't need a knife? This is the biggest reason I'm here is to learn, and I've changed a LOT in the past year based on UL practices.

[Lynn Tramper]

I basically agree with Dena. There is no right or wrong answer to what any of us should carry as backup, but hearing what others consider essential is very informative. At the very least, It constantly reminds me how grateful I am that I don't have to worry about bears or water purification. The down side is that I worry about getting stuck the wrong side of a swollen river, or large slip that can't be navigated around, or other unexpected and unpredictable weather repercussions. I also choose to worry about an injury that makes me unable to walk out on my own, even though I carry a PLB. Sometimes the weather is bad enough that it can take many days for things to improve enough for rescuers to safely extract me. I have been in these situations, which is why I worry about them. Food I can live without for a long time. Water is never contaminated or hard to find. But keeping warm in one of these situations is critical to me. So spare firelighting supplies are pretty important. A knife not so much. Even day hikes can turn bad quickly, so I even carry emergency keep warm supplies on these. On overnighters or longer of course I have a shelter, sleeping bag and ground insulation. On day trips I carry a rain poncho (doubles as shelter), UL bivy bag, sit pad and a warm jacket, gloves and hat, and firestarting. Many would consider these 'redundant' even though I don't carry two of each, but you only have to get caught out once to appreciate how important they become. My PLB always goes with me too. I also agree that if is often easier to keep warm in colder wather (if there's dry snow around then it is easier to dig a pit and provide dry-ish shelter out of the wind). In cool, wet and windy conditions it can be much harder.

[Tad Englund]

Dena, thanks-

Here are a couple of things I do/use:

I use a mini bic, but have a fire-steel in my kit for back up and it has a small striker (might be a piece of a hacksaw blade or something)

My Swiss Army classic has scissors that I use for cutting most everything, i.e. Moleskin (haven't used in ten years)
Cording and twine, I seem to have to cut open others prepackaged stuff (I use freezer bags), they like my scissors.
I use my fingers to cut duct tape.
For tent stakes I use a stick- they always seem to be sharp on one end or my small blade could do the trick in a pinch, or I use a couple of rocks and a stick as a deadman.
For a spoon, the times when I've forgotten it I was with someone else who happen to have a "redundant" spoon available, but I could have made chop sticks with my small blade.
The scissors could be used to cut down you packaging, maybe not as fast.

Of course all of this is because I hike in a fairly well used and not remote area- refer to my first post- so I don't worry about stuff.

If left to the wilds of Alaska I would probably want something more robust- though when Andrew Shurka did his trip he only used my knife for his whole trip. I guess I would just use what I have out of habit.

[Ben H.]

"…what you do that makes it that you don't require a knife?…"

nothing

"…so I don't have my moleskin pre-cut, or my cordage pre-cut, or my duct tape pre-cut…"

I haven't gotten a blister, so I haven't used my mole skin. And if I did, I use donuts, so I guess pre-cut in the package. I don't have the need for cord. If I did have a need for cord, I would try to keep it all together as much as possible, probably because I'm cheap. I've used duct tape once… I tore it with my hands.

I also use the original packaging on freeze dried meals. I just fold down the sides or get my fingers dirty. If the stiff sides bothered me I would re-package into freezer bags. Lighters seem much easier to use than fire steels to me, plus I wouldn't really count that as use of the "knife".

[Scott Bentz]

I take 2 lights almost always. I use a Princeton Tec Impulse and I just hook one on my hat on one on my pack. I think they weigh .5 oz. each.

I like to take a few extra Chlorine Dioxide Tablets but have never used them. I always come home with unused tablets. I am drinking more and more untreated water and if I were in an emergency drinking clear water in the Sierra Nevada is just fine.

In response to Dena: I repackage all of my meals. That way I just dump the meal into a tub. No cutting required. I used to hate when I had to eat out of the pouch the meal came in and I would cut it down with a knife (or a scissor would do the same). So, since I really haven't needed a knife for a long time I use either a Dermasafe blade or a single edge razor. I think knives are cool but ever since I left my Mora knife on a log in Yosemite a few years ago I have not traveled with a knife.

I like to have a MiniBic and maybe a few matches but have never used the extra matches.

One other thing: I really prefer Leukotape to moleskin. It sticks much better, can cut without a knife, and you can take what you feel you will need and wrap it around your lip balm or lighter.

Scott

[Dena Kelley]

Tad and Ben- I appreciate your replies on why you don't carry a knife. I doubt I'll ever get to where I don't carry at least a small one but I'm getting more comfortable with the idea of carrying just a small folder.

Scott- thanks in particular for the comment re Leukotape, I will have to check that out. I had heard about it before but can't find it locally, but I see Amazon sells it. I am prone to blisters and maybe this will be the answer. :)

[Lynn Tramper]

I would also consider a knife to be a redundant item…for me. I DO carry a very small knife to cut salami and cheese, etc…but hardly an essential item that I couldn't live without. However, I always carry a small pair of scissors which I use for many things. Cutting tape that I can't tear with my hands, cutting cord, opening bags, cutting finger nails etc…, but the scissors too I could easily live without in an emergency situation. Sometimes I think it is easy to be swayed by the likes of watching Bear Grylls that a knife, and a decently grunty knife at that, is an absolute essential, but I never put myself in a situation where I have no emergency shelter or fire-starting options, even on a day trip. If I can't cross a river, I will wait for it to go down rather than trying to build a raft. I don't need to hunt/kill/or skin anything. And I don't have the skills and knowledge of a Bear Grylls (or the filming crew). Maybe if I did, I would leave the shelter and PLB at home and just carry a knife instead, make insulation from forest duff and start a fire with friction ;) However, I would be very keen to hear of other uses that folks have found for their knives in situations that I haven't yet encountered…

[Jim L]

Depends on where I'm going and for how long, but usually more than one way to carry water (bladder and bottle, two or more bottles, whatever); a small folding knife for comfort and a dermasafe in my FAK; a couple of ways to make fire; and a second pair of glasses. I know that for some folks that stuff belongs in my next paragraph.

Beyond the first paragraph my backups truly are redundancies and are sequestered in my "don't die in the woods" kit which is where I put backups for my insecurities. To control this some, I put a hard limit on the weight allowed here – currently 8 oz, but it's down from a pound last year. This kit seems to change all the time depending on which insecurity elbows its way to the front of my consciousness. This is stuff like second form of water treatment, backup shelter, an extra unneeded clothing layer, a Real Knife, extra rope, a second compass, extra batteries, etc, etc.

For me, it was like a light bulb switched on when I could unemotionally recognize the difference between what I evaluated rationally as backups versus my packed insecurities. At least now I can work on reducing the insecurity list.

Jim

[Brian UL]

The only redundant items I carry are fire making materials. Matches and a fire steel w/wax coated jute or cotton string.
I also carry a fixed blade knife most of the time. Especially on a day hike because I have no sleeping bag or tent.
But I have taken bushcraft/survival coarses and feel comfortable that I know how and what Im going to use it for. The most important use is to get at the dry wood in a wet rainy situation so as to start a warming fire if I was in an emergency situation, or even if its not an emergency but I was caught out overnight unexpectedly. Yes I could build a debris shelter and even get a fire going without any tools, but the knife and extra firesteel weigh only a few ounces. That 3-4 ounces would make fire building and shelter building ( shelter is the least likely thing I would need to make)a WHOLE lot easier and faster.
Thats not a small deal in an emergency situation. if I was hypothermic it would make a big difference if I could build a fire faster and with shaky cold hands when everything in the woods is soaking wet.
If I have to wonder the woods for half an hour to find enough dry kindling and decent wood while injured or freezing thats not a good situation. Its so much easier and safer to simply pull out my Mora and split any old stick that happens to be near me and make feather sticks and piles of dry shaving ect,ect, thats worth the few unnoticeable ounces for me.
But I also have carried nothing but small folding scissors on 1-2week hikes (JMT)where Im carrying shelter,sleeping bags and have to travel through the airport ect. I also use my wood burning stove now and its easier to carry my knife and even sometimes my folding saw simply because its so much faster and efficient to get my water boiled with out hunting for dry wood/kindling.
I also live and hike where the fire danger is nothing at all like out west and the biggest problem is wet wood and rain and not dryness and fire hazards.

* I also always carry an extra 1-2 liter platy just in case I need to carry more water for any reason.

[Lynn Tramper]

Hi Brian

Just curious if you have ever tried this for real:

"if I was hypothermic it would make a big difference if I could build a fire faster and with shaky cold hands when everything in the woods is soaking wet.
If I have to wonder the woods for half an hour to find enough dry kindling and decent wood while injured or freezing thats not a good situation. Its so much easier and safer to simply pull out my Mora and split any old stick that happens to be near me and make feather sticks and piles of dry shaving ect,ect, thats worth the few unnoticeable ounces for me."

When I have been this cold, with hands shaking uncontrollably, I haven't even been able untie my boots. I can't imagine how I would hold a knife with enough dexterity to make fuzz sticks. Even striking a flint, match or using a butane lighter wasn't easily do-able. Thankfully I had someone else with me who wasn't as cold and could light the fire. However, even shaking as bad as I was, I could (and did) still search for and gather dry wood. This required less coordination than using a knife…by a long shot. Not saying YOU couldn't do it, just that I couldn't.

But a fire, however you go about making it, is IMHO the most important thing to make work if you get stuck in a bad situation, not only to keep warm (it is not always cold when a swollen river blocks your way), but also can provide long distance signalling if needed, and I personally also think the psychological benefits of having a fire in times of stress can't be over-rated. I carry a flint, and a stormproof butane lighter, as well as some dry waterproof tinder, even on day walks. That's how important I consider the ability to make a fire. I used to carry stromproof matches, until I got caught in a storm where I really needed them, only to find that the striker I needed to light them couldn't be kept dry long enough to do the job. Then again, I'm not sure it would have made a difference in that situation. The wind and rain were so strong, without any sign of shelter, that I don't know if I could have got the stove to stay lit anyway. The windscreen had disappeared in a gust of windI don't think a fire would have kept burning either. The wind reached gusts in excess of 200km/hour that day, so was not a day that anyone should have been in the area, even in a well-built house! Obviously these winds were not forecast, otherwise we wouldn't have been there…

[Jen Churchward]

I admit I have quite a bit of redundancy in my kit… but I like to be both prepared and comfortable! I carry waterproof matches & a mini Bic, plus some vaseline soaked cotton balls for reliable firestarting, in addition to my Jetboil. I carry a few water purification tabs in addition to my Sawyer filter. I carry a small folding knife AND scissors… best of both worlds! And I'm probably one of the very few who has actually used pliers on a camping trip… but try getting cholla cactus out of a dog's paw without them! I made a little CYA kit that I carry with me even when I don't have my pack on that contains just the essentials I consider I would need in a dire emergency. I hope I don't have to use them, but it does give me some peace of mind to have them.

Then there are the silly redundancies that probably no-one else has, but that make me happy. I hate drinking different beverages out of the same cup. I use a bladder strictly for water, a small Nalgene for flavoured cold drinks, and an insulated mug for hot drinks. I don't know why… that's just the way I like it. I tried just using one cup and decided I would rather carry the extra weight. I also carry a bowl in which to put my freezer bag meals while I'm eating. I used to dump out the cooked food into the bowl, but now I just put the bag in the bowl and eat from the bag. There's something about eating out of plastic bags that makes me cringe… the bowl goes some way towards relieving that. Plus, there's nothing I hate more than getting the spoon handle all covered in food when eating from a bag… yuck!

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