Used Toilet Paper – Pack it out!

[Anonymous]

"whats your thought on using a microbe mix for buried excrement?"

All the microbes required to break down excrement are contained in either the excrement itself or in the surrounding soil.

[Bean]

Even though I'm personally anti-TP in the wilderness, I think LNT and parks should teach (at least as a frowned upon option), the two hole method: one hole dedicated for TP to then mix in some water and stir it up with dirt.

And I totally agree with the idea that 99% of the TP we see in the wilderness was never buried in the first place. Rather it's day hikers or exceptionally uneducated backpackers that likely don't even dig holes at all. Whenever I see TP in the wilderness, it is almost always too white to of spent a second under even a scoop of dirt. I suspect too, a percentage of what's seen, is used to blow a nose before being tossed off the trail.

If the true objective is to stop seeing toilet paper on the side of trails, the education focus likely needs to figure out how to get that information in front of day hikers. These are people who drive straight to a trailhead, likely don't even have a map and never talk to a ranger in a permit office.

Ratcheting up the volume each year on backpackers with the notion they must pack out their toilet paper won't ever deal with what is likely the actual cause of all the TP that is seen sitting 10 feet off the side of a trail.

For those still using TP, if you find some Mule's Ear, it's like 20 ply velvet toilet paper. I'd use it at home if I could get a steady supply and if it wouldn't completely jack up my plumbing.

[Tim Zen]

Two hole method would be much better than nothing. Sometimes LNT is perfect being the enemy of good.

I will try the two hole method.

The plant looks really interesting, but with my luck there would probably be a spider or a hornet hiding from me until the crucial moment.

[Jim C]

I hadn't heard of the two hole method before now. I assume it means just what it sounds like: p00p in one hole, toilet paper in another?

Why is this preferred to one hole? Does it make the toilet paper less likely to be dug up by animals? Is the two hole method still preferred over the purée method?

[Ken Thompson]

"Seeing paper above ground is not evidence that an animal has dug it up. The real culprit is lazy and/or ignorant people who don't even try to bury it properly."

Ever notice that you generally see just a few squares that look pretty clean? Pee rags ladies, pee rags. Stop with the mountain flowers already.

I too have never seen evidence of animals digging deposits up. I've gone back to spots to check on my own deposits. Never an issue of any kind.

[Bean]

"I hadn't heard of the two hole method before now. I assume it means just what it sounds like: p00p in one hole, toilet paper in another?

Why is this preferred to one hole? Does it make the toilet paper less likely to be dug up by animals? Is the two hole method still preferred over the purée method?"

The two hole is the same thing as the puree method. Which is to completely soak and mix the toilet paper with dirt and stir it up with a stick, giving it no chance at ending up as a fluffy puff on the side of the trail… and has the benefit of getting the decomposing kickstarted.

Two holes, because, well… most people likely don't want to stir a crap with a stick. If it doesn't bother the person, then one hole.

[brian H]

This has been a peev of mine for a long time. In general my observations have been similar to Ken T, the paper that's the most visible and most plentiful seems to have been lightly used if at all, it was not buried.

And another peev, far more common in the urban world, and requiring the same low level of consideration… the idiots who treat the back of a pickup truck like a garbage can, forgetting what happens when you hit a certain speed on the freeway… the stuff goes airborne, and decorates the freeways, the landscapes, and winds up in streams and waterways.
Really people, is common sense no longer common?

[Kenneth Jacobs]

"Really people, is common sense no longer common?"

I only know of one left…

[Richard May]

So someone left a paper trail on my last hike. At first I kept finding squares of TP every 50 to 100 feet. Then, I kept finding inch squares. I must have been just behind them because it started after the trailhead after mine and the TP was very fresh.

Anyhow, it bugged me enough to make this

https://flic.kr/p/we9b46

[Tim Zen]

Very nice instructions.
It is so simple. The LNT people need to adopt it, since compliance with pack-it-out is a failure. Even if you didn't dig a hole and just got it wet, stirred it around and kick some dirt over it would be a huge improvement.

[Jerry Adams]

some day I'm going to do an experiment – three holes:

1 – dry Poop and TP
2 – add pee
3 – also stir

come back one year later and see if there's any difference

I normally do 2 and don't bother stirring. The combination of pee and Poop is good fertilizer.

Have to capitalize Poop to get through profanity filter : )

[Anonymous]

"I normally do 2 and don't bother stirring. The combination of pee and Poop is good fertilizer"

I do the same, and have checked, several times. Nothing but compost left. At 10,800' or so. No need to pack it out if you can compost it in place.

[Jerry Adams]

I've gone back to the same place I've been before and found nothing, but I'm not sure I was at the exact spot. I need a more controlled experiment : )

Also, I frequently go to areas commonly used by others and never found TP under ground.

Occasionally I see TP and Poop that someone hasn't buried, but that's just poor technique on their part.

I think if there's a couple inches of soil above your TP and Poop, it's good enough. No need to bury it a foot deep or anything.

I think some people leave some TP visible on the surface to worn others not to go there. You don't need to do this. Bury it and it will soon completely decompose. If rarely, you dig and run into someone elses spot, just move to a slightly different spot, no big deal.

[Ben H.]

I tend to agree with the sentiment posted above. The stuff breaks down pretty quickly in a hole. I hike in the Sierra's that has booked up trail quotas of tens to hundreds of people per day. Every time I have seen TP it is obvious someone did not bury it. I have dug many cat-holes around established campsites and have never once come across someone else's stuff. I am not terribly flexible so I seek out spots that look like good crapping locales (with a rock or downed tree).

[Jerry Adams]

or on a slope that wouldn't make a good sleeping location. or in a thicket that wouldn't be good for sleeping. In vegetative matter that has bacteria and roots, rather than a gravel area that wouldn't be so good for decomposition.

[Kelly G]

I often pack out all TP. Not that hard. Zipper baggie. Otherwise, cat hole, mix it up and poke the TP down even lower in the hole, and cover with soil. Sometimes I put a stick X over it to serve as warning to others. Figure the sticks will shift due to weather at some point, at which time, things are probably decomposed enough not to be a problem to someone else. Kelly

[Roger Caffin]

> Sometimes I put a stick X over it to serve as warning to others. That's our standard practice. Zero effect on the environment, not all that long lasting, but enough to alert other walkers. Of course, if a wombat or a bear or a moose comes along and buries the crossed sticks with its doings, you lose the warning. Maybe all the wildlife should also 'pack it out'? What a farce. Cheers

[Cayenne Redmonk]

leaving piles of poo can be an art form, but the paper is a distraction nobody likes to come across. Unless you roll it out like a pathway to your masterpiece.

[Kattt]

"….a moose comes along and buries the crossed sticks with its doings, you lose the warning. Maybe all the wildlife should also 'pack it out'? What a farce. Cheers" It is the land of extremes. On one hand trash everywhere, parks with thousands of big busses, landfills full of items that are still perfectly good- but leaving your p@@p ( profanity filter….really fits it with my comments…) buried in the woods is awful, just awful. People like to wag their finger… :)

[Ken Thompson]

"you lose the warning" I think it has just been doubled.

[Jerry Adams]

If you capitalize Poop it gets through profanity filter we could try more naughty words?

[Roger Caffin]

Now now Jerry – bad ideas! We are upgrading the profanity filter to also recognise (and reject) 'Donald Trump', with capitals. Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

what? you've heard about the Donald Trump outside the U.S.? I am living in 24/7 reality TV show…

[Roger Caffin]

> you've heard about the Donald Trump outside the U.S.? Oh yes. I think the rest of the world is watching in unholy dread and fascination at this saga, hoping like mad that it does not go really bad. The idea of him actually running America seems like the ultimate horror show, seen from the outside. OK, OK, I may be biased. Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

Who knows what would happen. He's not real transparent. I think we'd survive.

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