U.S. denatured etoh for stove use?

Dean:
I've been using the same SLX denatured alcohol you mention for quite awhile. It works nicely. I think it does have some nasties in it, but no worse than the others. Seems like I looked it up a couple years ago, but my memory is not perfect. I almost always use that SLX or Everclear.

http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/KS%20Denatured%20Alcohol%20(1625.6)%204-14-09.pdf
45-50% Ethanol
50-55% Methanol
1-4% methyl isobutyl ketone

or you could try to find this :
http://www.shellac.net/alcohol.html
95% Ethanol
Franco

One of the reasons I chose the Klean-Strip brand is because it says 'for marine stoves' on the can.

Once this can is gone I intend to buy the Green version, which is also marketed as being for marine stoves.

Hi Dean

Check their web site for a MSDS.

Cheers

SLX is about a 50/50 blend of ethanol and methanol. It is generally produced by the petrolium industry, NOT fermentation, hence the ketones and some other traces in it.

As far as I know, SLX is fine for stoves used for camping. Most everything in it burns at fairly low temps with no really bad byproducts. Some denaturing agents are very bad, Jim had a problem with some burning yellow and sooty…it was denatured with a small amount of gasoline. Some relesaed some bad stuff while burning and plugged up the stove…it was denatured with mineral salts.

Of the various fuel I have tried, SLX, Methanol(Yellow HEET)are the ones I get on a regular basis. I use SLX mainly because it is cheap ($15/gallon,) works as shelac thinner, is a good solvent, and burns real clean.

Do I breath the fumes? No. I avoid all combustion products, generally not much oxygen there.

Generally, the energy heiarchy:
Wood, Methanol, Ethanol, Esbit, White Gas, Gasoline, Kerosene and Canister Gas

SLX is near the bottom end. WG is high center, IsoPro is near highest with Propane about the most energy dense fuels.

I have used the Kleen Strip SLX before and experienced a headache which I believe was from breathing too much of the burning fumes. My plan is to try Everclear in an attempt to avoid some of the bad stuff. Of course Everclear is much more expensive and may not be available in all locations, though it is available at my local liquor store.

I also experienced headaches with stove tests using low percentage ethanol denatured alcohols during stove testing, outside. And some other symptoms that were also listed as low level methanol poisoning. Impressed me, I'm not interested in poisoning myself.

Stove testing obviously exposes you to higher amounts than normal cooking, but it impressed me, so I use Klean Strip Green, which is slx brand, but has a much higher ethanol content, closer to 90 or 95%. Bonus: at lower altitudes has more energy than regular slx or other denatured alcohols that have a lot of methanol in them, ie, less is needed to boil a pot of water.

One person some time ago noted that he had experienced that high methanol fuels like yellow heet burn better at altitude, I checked if this was a coherent scientific statement with a real chemist, and he confirmed that could well be the case, ie, methanol's boiling point works better for higher altitudes for some reason that escapes my memory. That's like, 8k and above. Wouldn't use the stuff myself unless truly desperate though, it's way too toxic.

Reading the msds is a good idea, it's educational, that's why I would only use the 'green' type products, they are less toxic and more energy dense. Home depot has klean strip green, lowes has another one, sunnyside or something like that, ace hardware will order klean strip green for you if you ask.

As others have pointed out, SLX is a near 50/50 mix of ethanol and methanol. It gives a good balanced performance over temperature. I've burned 190 proof Ethanol and found it less than ideal. I've burned lab grade Isoprophyl and found it lacking. The best is SLX or yellow bottle HEET.

HEET lights and burns better in the cold. It does have a lower vapor pressure than Ethanol, perhaps that is why folks claim it works better at altitude. I cook a lot at the 8-9K' level and my stoves seem to run great. But I've never done any detailed measurements of fuel consumption/boil times.

Methanol is toxic. It is important to read the MSDS as there seems to be a misconception that it can be used to sanitize your hands, etc. It is absorbed through the skin, although not in quantities to matter for a stove user. Typical stoves will boil off more methanol than can be burned, so the stove fumes can have a high methanol content. Obviously an alcohol stove is an imperfect combustion source, so you certainly don't want to use it in an enclosed space.

I've burned many gallons of alcohol and I've never gotten headaches. Perhaps some folks are more sensitive to the combustion byproducts?

"I checked if this was a coherent scientific statement with a real chemist, and he confirmed that could well be the case, ie, methanol's boiling point works better for higher altitudes"

Now that you mention it, I remember something similar from my college chemistry. I'll be spending about 5 nights next week at elevations between 11,500' and 14,000' ASL next week, I'd like my stove to work as well as possible. Gonna be chilly up there.

I have always used the SLX, including frequently while camping at elevations over 12,000 ft. I have never noticed any problems with performance at those elevations (with a White Box stove).

Ok, I looked up the MSDS:

Klean-Strip S-L-X:

Ethanol 45-50%
Methanol 45-50%
Methyl isobutyl ketone 1-4%

So, yes, about half/half ethanol/methanol. Damn. I was hoping that it was mostly ethanol, for the higher energy density.

So, I looked up the MSDS on Klean-Strip Green:

Ethanol 90-100%
Methanol <10%
Methyl isobutyl ketone <10%
Acetic acid, ethyl ester <5%

Hmm. That's more like it, but adds the complexity of another adulterant. (Ethyl acetate is nail polish remover.)

So, rats, still no perfect and cheap alcohol fuel. But I can use the S-L-X for the time being, I suppose. It is damned cheap.

P.S. Randy- I have burned 190-proof Everclear on occasion. It gets expensive very quickly.

Discovery Channel has a show about moonshiners

When you first start your still, the first liquid you get out of it includes methanol. You have to throw that out so you don't go blind. It must have lower boiling point?

I was thinking, that would be good for alcohol stove.

Of course it's not legal, which seems odd, shouldn't be illegal if you don't sell it to anyone : )

Now you just need a couple 'shiners to agree to save it for you.

Yes it IS illegel. So is speeding…. Make your own hooch? Hell, that would probably cost more'n buying a gallon of SLX for the year.

Here's the page detailing the regulations for the federal US government on operating an alcohol fuel plant: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=55ab07ef13b5b884845a9f81984bde79&rgn=div6&view=text&node=27:1.0.1.1.15.24&idno=27

It's interesting reading, if you can wade through the legalese. Down in section 19.736, they detail the materials one can use to make denatured alcohol, well, denatured (which brings it under a different, lesser tax burden–making it cheaper than straight ethanol). Repeated here for ease of perusal:

"Materials for Making Spirits Unfit for Beverage Use

§ 19.746 Authorized materials.

(a) General. The appropriate TTB officer determines what materials make spirits unfit for beverage use but do not impair the quality of the spirits for fuel use. Spirits treated with materials authorized under this section will be considered rendered unfit for beverage use and eligible for withdrawal as fuel alcohol.

(b) Authorized materials. Subject to the specifications in paragraph (c) of this section, proprietors are authorized to render spirits unfit for beverage use by adding to each 100 gallons of spirits any of following materials in the quantities specified:

(1) Two gallons or more of—

(i) Gasoline or automotive gasoline (for use in engines that require unleaded gasoline, the Environmental Protection Agency and manufacturers specifications may require that unleaded gasoline be used to render spirits unfit for beverage use);

(ii) Natural gasoline;

(iii) Kerosene;

(iv) Deodorized kerosene;

(v) Rubber hydrocarbon solvent;

(vi) Methyl isobutyl ketone;

(vii) Mixed isomers of nitropropane;

(viii) Heptane;

(ix) Ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE);

(x) Raffinate;

(xi) Naphtha; or

(xii) Any combination of the materials listed in (b)(1)(i) through (xi) of this section; or

(2) Five gallons or more of Toluene; or

(3) One-eighth (1/8) of an ounce of denatonium benzoate N.F. and 2 gallons of isopropyl alcohol."

They don't list methanol

Dean, have you found anything better than Klean-Strip Green? Have you tried E-nrg?

I tried E-nrg. Burns very hot. It still certainly has nasty additives that smell when burned. While not as bad as Esbit or some other alcohol mixtures, it's not pleasant – still smells like some nasty stuff burning – and even though rated for indoor use in alcohol-burning fireplaces, I can't believe anyone would burn this indoors unless a chimney is carrying all the fumes straight out of the room/house.

Has anyone tried both Klean-Strip Green and E-nrg? How did you find they compare?

Jerry, Methanol is not really that toxic. The 2% they mention (2 gal per 100) is not that bad for you. The ethanol will block the metabolism of most of the methanol till it can be eliminated so drinking a goodly amount will cause the methanol component to be eliminated at a higher rate than the ethanol is metabolized… Your body is fairly used to low concentrations of methanol, 2% is a LOT but probably not as harmfull as a lot of people believe…most fruits and vegtables have some, though not as high as 2%. It is not really public knowlege since it IS toxic. Isopropynol is far more toxic.

@ EJ

I can't say anything yet about Kleen-Strip Green.
Heck, I haven't finished the ginormous can of SLX yet… But I'm getting close.

SLX is the best all-around alcohol stove fuel. HEET yellow bottle is the 2nd best (although maybe 1st place in the winter). I've burned many gallons of SLX over the years, and I was seriously bummed when the price more than doubled (thanks to ethanol subsidies which have lowered fuel economy – stupid greenies – another rant).

Methanol is dangerous, so don't wash your hair with it. But a 50/50 mix of Ethanol/Methanol, (SLX msds), is easy to light in the cold and burns hot.

Stoves that opperate with insufficient oxygen cause me to have a headache. Placing your windscreen too close to your pot will starve your stove in some cases. I can smell a distinct odor when the stove has insufficient oxygen. If I continue to do tests under those conditions I experience the headaches. The more you burn the more you learn as Jon would say.

I use denatured in all my stove testing/developing.

I use Origo marine stoves for car camping. In my RV I have a marine stove as a backup to my propane. Denatured alcohol is my friend;)

I checked the MSDS for a number of denatured alcohol brands sold in marine supply stores specifically for use as stove fuel. The mixtures were near identical to SLX and others sold for general purpose paint and refinishing. I wouldn't want to use them in a stove in closed boat cabin or RV— or a tent. I think the "green" variations are the way to go. It would be interesting to see a good comparative test on temperature with good instrumentation.

I wonder if these different alcohol mixes could benefit from optimized jet sizes.

Sorry Dean, I meant SLX

Don, why do you think SLX is better than E-nrg based on the contents (MSDS)?

Dan, you make a good point. Though outdoors, you usually need a windscreen to save time and fuel, and when using a windscreen in the open, you're probably not getting enough of a dose of anything to harm you unless you have your face right over the stove. I make sure I'm not downwind of it…

Experience. I've burned high-proof Iso (terribly sooty), Yellow Bottle HEET (pure Methanol), SLX (50/50 mix) and high-proof Ethanol. In cold weather HEET lights easiest and stoves come up to speed fastest. In mild weather SLX burns longest/hottest with better fuel economy. Iso is terrible unless you use the single stove designed for it and high-proof Ethanol is for drinking – in my opinion.

So if you want the best all-around stove fuel – use SLX. If like those cool yellow bottles then use HEET, as it is a pretty good fuel. If you want something that is safe for stripping paint and will burn ok in your stove – get the Parks brand denatured which is 90+% Ethanol and no Methanol.

Read the MSDS on Methanol. It is absorbed through the skin, but unless you try to bathe with it you aren't likely to get enough of it in your system to cause problems. Carry a bottle of Jack Daniels with you just in case you suspect excess Methanol exposure (give you and excuse to get drunk).

If you can smell fuel, then your stove is running too hot and boiling off more fuel than it can burn. If the flame is yellow, (typical Iso result), then your stove is running rich. If the flame goes out then you need more fuel or it is time to drink your coffee :)